# NYC Democratic election official claims voter ID fraud **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 12, 2016, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-democratic-election-official-claims-voter-id-fraud/768358 "2016-10-12T21:25:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-democratic-election-official-claims-voter-id-fraud/768358/21 "2016-10-15T19:38:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If you’re signing the name f a person who’s dead, the risk f him showing up is small. True, but the risk of it being found out is high, unless he’s somehow not been reported as dead. This would be one of the easiest to detect in those fraud statistics. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-democratic-election-official-claims-voter-id-fraud/768358/22 "2016-10-15T19:54:56Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > [snip] > Not just some conservative undercover reporter, but James O’keefe, pathological liar of the undercover video world. > > [http://www.politico.com/story/2013/03/james-okeefe-agrees-to-pay-100000-settlement-088620](http://www.politico.com/story/2013/03/james-okeefe-agrees-to-pay-100000-settlement-088620) > [Fake pimp from ACORN videos tries to 'punk' CNN correspondent - CNN.com](http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/09/29/okeefe.cnn.prank/) Ha. Blame the messenger. The guy’s on tape. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-democratic-election-official-claims-voter-id-fraud/768358/23 "2016-10-15T20:01:05Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Ha. Blame the messenger. The guy’s on tape. Hah, you must not had read the thread or the cites. O’Keeffe is the kind of messenger that should be blamed with deserved malice, and there were edits made to the tape, for all we know the interviewer could had lead the confused (or drunk) fellow to follow with statetements that had no support. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-democratic-election-official-claims-voter-id-fraud/768358/24 "2016-10-15T20:01:59Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > True, but the risk of it being found out is high, unless he’s somehow not been reported as dead. This would be one of the easiest to detect in those fraud statistics. Who is going to check to make sure that none of the people who checked in to vote at a give precinct have not previously been reported as dead? Nobody is likely to look. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-democratic-election-official-claims-voter-id-fraud/768358/25 "2016-10-15T20:19:19Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > Who is going to check to make sure that none of the people who checked in to vote at a give precinct have not previously been reported as dead? Nobody is likely to look. Actually there are people that do, and the results of finding fraud are still severe: > **[Votes cast in the names of deceased people](https://ballotpedia.org/Dead_people_voting)** > > Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics > [@](#): > > Some recent examples of elections in which actual fraudulent votes were cast on behalf of dead people include a 2005 state senate election in Tennessee that was decided by fewer than 20 votes; in this case, a post-election verification process established that two fraudulent votes were cast on behalf of dead people. Three election workers were indicted, and the results of the election were voided. The mayoral election in Miami in 1997 was nullified by a judge because of widespread fraud, including a number of established cases of fraudulent votes cast in the name of dead people. So there is the fact that when evidence is found the results can be voided, the problem with a lot of the current fraud allegations, usually coming from the right, are more of the conspiracy theory kind. However they have more common and reasonable explanations and therefore less of a reason for judges to or other authorities to react. [http://www.samefacts.com/2006/10/everything-else/voter-fraud-fraud-2/](http://www.samefacts.com/2006/10/everything-else/voter-fraud-fraud-2/) > [@](#): > > The latest version of this fan-dance comes from Jonathan Adler at the Volokh Conspiracy, and has been gleefully linked to by Glenn Reynolds. It seems that the Poughkeepsie Journal has found 77,000 dead people on the voter rolls in New York State, of whom 2600 may have voted. Moreover, “Democrats are more successful at voting after death than Republicans, by a margin of four-to-one, largely because so many dead people seem to vote in Democrat-dominated New York City.” > > Note first that the operative phrase is “may have.” The newspaper report clearly concedes a point that the blog posts ignore: in fact the reporter detected _ **not a single instance of actual voter fraud** _. > > > [@](#): > > > > ``` > > The numbers do not indicate how much fraud is the result of dead voters in New York, only the potential for it. Typically, records of votes by the dead are the result of bookkeeping errors and do not mean any extra ballots were actually cast. > > > > The Journal did not find any fraud in the local matches it investigated. > > > > ``` > > The printed version of the story, pointed to by a VC commenter, explains: > > > [@](#): > > > > - Having deceased residents on the rolls can create records of a vote that never took place. **The Journal investigated seven local cases identified in its computerized analysis. Each one was either a database mismatch or an accounting error. The Journal found no examples of fraud** \* > > . ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_Hey\_Paula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hey\_Hey\_Paula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_Hey_Paula)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-democratic-election-official-claims-voter-id-fraud/768358/26 "2016-10-15T23:19:36Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > There are various procedures for use of a conditional/provisional ballot. I suspect that a person claiming to be the same John Q. Public who has already been marked as having voted would then be able to cast a conditional ballot. But it seems doubtful that there would be an effective way in all cases to pull the earlier cast fraudster’s ballot from the pile. > > The US Election Assistance Commission wrote a 130 page report ([pdf link](https://www.eac.gov/assets/1/Page/Innovations%20in%20Election%20Administration%2019.pdf)) just on conditional ballots. I completed my first-time poll worker training the other day. In my county, I can tell you that there is no way, once a regularly-voted ballot has been cast (as opposed to a provisional ballot, a mail in ballot that was dropped off, or a ballot from the machine for visually impaired voters who want to listen to the ballot) that it can be distinguished and pulled from the ballot box. (No ballots are pulled from the ballot box at all until the end of the night, after the polls have closed.) The training did not address what to do if a voter comes later in the day and our records show he/she already voted, but they gave us extensive handouts and an emergency number. If that happens, I’ll call the emergency number. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-democratic-election-official-claims-voter-id-fraud/768358/27 "2016-10-16T01:43:56Z")
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