# NYC Dopers: On behalf of a Doper and a friend **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 8, 2004, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-dopers-on-behalf-of-a-doper-and-a-friend/249289 "2004-06-08T15:44:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-dopers-on-behalf-of-a-doper-and-a-friend/249289/21 "2004-06-08T17:50:12Z")
On second reading, I understand what you’re saying, **jar**. And thank you to **Pucette** , you were much more gracious than I might have been if someone had directed a post like mine at me. I think I was blinded by my trust in **TubaDiva** ’s SuperStellar Extra-Nitro TurboCharged Admin Judgement. [sup]I mean, she is an Admin, after all. [/sup] ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-dopers-on-behalf-of-a-doper-and-a-friend/249289/22 "2004-06-08T18:19:53Z")
There is no implied smiley. If all you wanted to do is warn people that this might not be the best charity case (something I wholly agree with, incidentally) then I see no reason not to follow normal board convention and start a pit thread and then link to it in the thread that spawned it if wanting to draw people’s attention. As is, Tuba’s thread has been completely taken over by a tangentially related one from nine months ago, making it a hijack. ---
**Author:** ![Pucette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/278dde/32.png) [@Pucette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucette)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-dopers-on-behalf-of-a-doper-and-a-friend/249289/23 "2004-06-08T18:20:34Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > On second reading, I understand what you’re saying, **jar**. And thank you to **Pucette** , you were much more gracious than I might have been if someone had directed a post like mine at me. > > I think I was blinded by my trust in **TubaDiva** ’s SuperStellar Extra-Nitro TurboCharged Admin Judgement. > > [sup]I mean, she is an Admin, after all. [/sup] That’s the bottom line right there, IMO. I have a suspicion that some members of the SDMB would be slightly more inclined to help someone who’s being “sponsored” by an admin, than if it were a regular doper asking for a favor. And given the background of the situation, I was momentarily outraged. Now I’m just terribly amused. And thanks for the thanks! PS Aesiron - this doesn’t have the makings of a pit thread, as the point regarding the character of the individual in question has been made, and that’s all that was needed to counterbalance the somewhat incomplete OP. Like I said, people are free to do what they will to help. And I hope MM figures things out. ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-dopers-on-behalf-of-a-doper-and-a-friend/249289/24 "2004-06-08T18:26:07Z")
Didn’t do this as an admin, did it personally to try to help someone I knew who has never been anything but nice to me. Who, btw, did not ask me or the board for help; I did this on my own. Didn’t know Billdo’s story, either, 'til now. But even so, kicking someone when they’re down, what’s the point of that? your humble TubaDiva ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-dopers-on-behalf-of-a-doper-and-a-friend/249289/25 "2004-06-08T18:42:15Z")
I see “the point” as being a word of advice to folks who may wish to support MM financially or with a room under their roof, or some other type committment. This type of help was NOT asked for in the OP, but Dopers CAN be very generous and go above and beyond what was asked. Past performance does not automatically predict future results, but it would not be right to be silent and let another Doper get taken advantage of (if that were to end up being the case), if such prior evidence behavior were known in advance. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-dopers-on-behalf-of-a-doper-and-a-friend/249289/26 "2004-06-08T19:15:35Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > There is no implied smiley. > > If all you wanted to do is warn people that this might not be the best charity case (something I wholly agree with, incidentally) then I see no reason not to follow normal board convention and start a pit thread and then link to it in the thread that spawned it if wanting to draw people’s attention. As is, Tuba’s thread has been completely taken over by a tangentially related one from nine months ago, making it a hijack. I wouldn’t call it “tangentially” related at all. If people wish to help out someone, it’s in their best interest to know the history of that person, at least regarding past problems. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-dopers-on-behalf-of-a-doper-and-a-friend/249289/27 "2004-06-08T19:41:38Z")
I’m going to pass on this one but thanks for asking. The common sense thing to do at this point would _not_ be to move to NYC where jobs are scarce and the cost of living is enormous. Wouldn’t it make more sense to move to a place that might not be as much fun but would be more likely to land one a job? It would certainly show more sincerity. In other words, I’d feel more desire to help if MM would be willing to move _anywhere_ he could get a job. Haj ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-dopers-on-behalf-of-a-doper-and-a-friend/249289/28 "2004-06-08T19:47:46Z")
I don’t see the need for this thread to take a negative turn. **TubaDiva** was trying to do someone a good turn, and her position as Admin should have no bearing on that matter. **Billdo** and **Oxy** related their experiences with **MonkeyMule** to give a balanced picture for people who might be inclined to help. I’ve met them both and they are solid witnesses–and I know for a fact that **Oxymoron** has a heart of 24K gold, so if someone has incurred his wrath, it must be for genuine cause. None of the posters in this thread should come in for any censure. I don’t see in the OP anything about **MonkeyMule** moving to the UK to be with someone he had never met, so it seems a little hard to charge him with that. Lots of folks here met their SOs online. If I were **MonkeyMule** , I would A) Apologize profusely to the people he has offended. B) Start looking at temp agencies and be willing to do anything. C) Look for shared housing within his budget D) As soon as he has the spare cash, he should take out the NYC Dopers he sponged from for beer and burgers on him. And, most important, take the lessons he has learned here to heart. ---
**Author:** ![Gundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Gundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gundy)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-dopers-on-behalf-of-a-doper-and-a-friend/249289/29 "2004-06-08T20:10:17Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > **TubaDiva** was trying to do someone a good turn, and her position as Admin should have no bearing on that matter. I dunno…would a thread like this would be allowed to remain open had anyone \*but \* a mod/admin started it? ---
**Author:** ![Pucette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/278dde/32.png) [@Pucette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucette)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-dopers-on-behalf-of-a-doper-and-a-friend/249289/30 "2004-06-08T20:11:27Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > I don’t see in the OP anything about **MonkeyMule** moving to the UK to be with someone he had never met, so it seems a little hard to charge him with that. Lots of folks here met their SOs online. That’s the problem, Gobear. She didn’t put it in the OP because she likely didn’t know this fact. And I think it is an important fact, along with other even more important ones made by other dopers who have spent time with him in person, in light of the nature of the OP request. As such, we aren’t specifically “kicking MM while he’s down.” The facts just don’t paint a particularly pleasing picture. And I for one would not like to see a side Pit thread spring up with just a bunch of folks slamming MM left and right. What the hell would that accomplish? I just think a heads up was in order here. On a mostly unrelated note, of course many people here have met their SOs online. I’m marrying mine in a couple of months. However, most people don’t make plans to move to a different continent to live with and marry a doper they haven’t met, while burning all of their bridges pre-move. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-dopers-on-behalf-of-a-doper-and-a-friend/249289/31 "2004-06-08T20:25:13Z")
When I first read **TubaDiva** ’s OP, my 1st instinct was to offer a temporary _room under my roof_. Unlike **Eve** , the only people I know in publishing are in the porno business. After reading **Billdo** ’s admonition and considering other posters ‘charity / fool me twice shame on me’ stance… (On top of the fact I still have heartburn from those White Castle clones they served at the Patriot for Manny’s retirement gathering) …I opted to follow my better instincts. What those instincts were are best left unsaid. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-dopers-on-behalf-of-a-doper-and-a-friend/249289/32 "2004-06-08T20:36:57Z")
> [@Cajun Man](#): > > Please remember what forum you’re in, folks. > > If you’re inclined to help someone, you do . . . if not, you don’t. It’s that simple. But, please don’t bitch about it in **MPSIMS**. > > Kicking someone when they’re down isn’t helpful. > > **Cajun Man** > for the SDMB Oh, I agree whole heartedly, Cajun Man, MPSIMS is most definitely NOT the place for a pile on, that’s what the pit is for. OTOH, if I am being asked to help someone out, I would like to know if that person had a history of mooching off other people’s generosity, or any other relevent facts. Does the person for whom the help is being requested use drugs, for example. If so, I may not be inclined to help. If the person has a history of taking gifts offered in the spirit of friendship and abusing that offer, I may not offer any gifts. A person asking for money who isn’t making every effort to find a job and take what’s available in the meantime will not get much sympathy from me. However, if the person is an outstanding member of the community, I may not think twice obout giving them money or airfare or anything else. It all comes down to circumstances, and I think that testimonials from people who know the poster in question can be valuable in deciding which way to go. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-dopers-on-behalf-of-a-doper-and-a-friend/249289/33 "2004-06-08T20:40:26Z")
> [@jarbabyj](#): > > How many mistakes does one have to make before we suggest they find their OWN way out of it? Seven times? Seventy times? How about seven times seventy times? For the people criticizing an effort to help a man who’s down: altruism expects nothing in return. You help a person to help them, not for the kudos you receive afterwards. MonkeyMule, sorry to hear things have turned to crap. I’m also sorry I can’t help here in the Midwest. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-dopers-on-behalf-of-a-doper-and-a-friend/249289/34 "2004-06-08T20:42:40Z")
> [@Pucette](#): > > That’s the problem, Gobear. She didn’t put it in the OP because she likely didn’t know this fact. And I think it is an important fact, along with other even more important ones made by other dopers who have spent time with him in person, in light of the nature of the OP request. As such, we aren’t specifically “kicking MM while he’s down.” The facts just don’t paint a particularly pleasing picture. Fair enough, **Pucette** , I misunderstood your post, my error. And, yes, that is an important datum to add for people to make an informed decision whether to help or what kind of help to extend. > [@](#): > > And I for one would not like to see a side Pit thread spring up with just a bunch of folks slamming MM left and right. What the hell would that accomplish? I just think a heads up was in order here. Me, either. I merely offered constructive tactics for **MonkeyMule** to get his life back in order. Ivdon’t see any reason for people to pile on the poor schmoe-he’s only 23 and he’s still learning how to make his way in the world. He took a chance that didn’t work out–it’s all part of learning about life. Now that he’s been burned, he won’t make that mistake again. > [@](#): > > On a mostly unrelated note, of course many people here have met their SOs online. I’m marrying mine in a couple of months. However, most people don’t make plans to move to a different continent to live with and marry a doper they haven’t met, while burning all of their bridges pre-move. He’s also not the only Doper to have a romance crash and burn on him spectacularly, so people should not be so hard on him for that. He screwed up, and hopefully he will find the _cojones_ to fess up to his error and to work on mending fences. I’ve never met the guy and up to now I never even noticed him on the boards. I just like to think that people can be mended and that nobody is beyond reclamation. Don’t tell anyone, but I still believe in repentance and salvation (in a purely non-theist manner, of course.) ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-dopers-on-behalf-of-a-doper-and-a-friend/249289/35 "2004-06-08T20:44:11Z")
If you’re trying to turn the bible back onto me, dear, seventy times seven is forgiveness, not handing out charity. It was on this very board that i was told being kind and generous != being taken advantage of time and time again. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-dopers-on-behalf-of-a-doper-and-a-friend/249289/36 "2004-06-08T20:55:54Z")
> [@jarbabyj](#): > > If you’re trying to turn the bible back onto me, dear, seventy times seven is forgiveness, not handing out charity. I see precious little difference between the two. Nor do I see MM giving up and relying on Dopers to find a dry place to sleep. What I do see is Tuba starting a thread to offer the opportunity for those who feel compelled to offer what they can. Apparently all some have to offer is derision and contempt. > [@](#): > > It was on this very board that i was told being kind and generous != being taken advantage of time and time again. Did you agree with that sentiment then? I’m not suggesting that those who had bad experiences with MM turn around and offer up house and home. I’m suggesting that those who feel MM left a bad taste in their mouth not crap in the collective mouths of the entire board to help us empathize with them. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-dopers-on-behalf-of-a-doper-and-a-friend/249289/37 "2004-06-08T20:56:28Z")
Screw the hijack. He wants into publishing in NYC? [www.mediabistro.com](http://www.mediabistro.com) [www.circjobs.com](http://www.circjobs.com) ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-dopers-on-behalf-of-a-doper-and-a-friend/249289/38 "2004-06-08T20:59:53Z")
Well, if you want to get Biblical, one can turn to the parable of the Talents (Matthew 25:14-30), and see that as a metaphor for someone who takes but does not give back. To really stretch a Biblical concept, grace is free but it ain’t cheap, and while you can’t earn it, you can only receive it if your repentance is sincere. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-dopers-on-behalf-of-a-doper-and-a-friend/249289/39 "2004-06-08T21:03:24Z")
And for anyone who wants to get his boot in to apor kid who made a bad call > [@](#): > > 1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-dopers-on-behalf-of-a-doper-and-a-friend/249289/40 "2004-06-08T21:43:53Z")
**Cajun Man** , I believe that your moderator comments in post #16 were misplaced, and I have requested clarification [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=260518). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-dopers-on-behalf-of-a-doper-and-a-friend/249289.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-dopers-on-behalf-of-a-doper-and-a-friend/249289.md?page=3)