# NYC Historians: A question about early 20th Century gangs **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 22, 2023, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-historians-a-question-about-early-20th-century-gangs/978584 "2023-01-22T00:26:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2023, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-historians-a-question-about-early-20th-century-gangs/978584/1 "2023-01-22T00:26:06Z")
In an early P.G. Wodehouse novel from around 1910, the author, who was living in New York at the time, refers to several contemporary street gangs , but mostly disguising their names. The East Side Gang is mentioned; I think that was a real gang. Their leader Monk Eastman was certainly real, but he’s only mentioned in passing. Much of his character and physical appearance is transferred over to the fictional Bat Jarvis, who like the real Eastman runs a pet shop, but this is located not on Broome Street, but the fictional Groome Street, and is also the headquarters of the equally fictional Groome Street Gang. The “Three Points Gang” is obviously standing in for the Five Points Gang. Finally there’s the “Table Hill Gang”, and that’s the one that puzzles me. Can anyone tell me what that name would have been alluding to? Was there a Murray Hill Gang? Is there some Manhattan neighborhood called Table Hill? ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2023, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-historians-a-question-about-early-20th-century-gangs/978584/2 "2023-01-22T01:51:33Z")
Maybe it was a stand in for the group of Tammany Hall sluggers mentioned here? [List of identities in The Gangs of New York (book)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_identities_in_The_Gangs_of_New_York_(book)) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2023, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-historians-a-question-about-early-20th-century-gangs/978584/3 "2023-01-22T02:46:54Z")
There was the [Cherry Hill Gang](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_Hill_Gang), which had an evil reputation in NYC around the the turn of the 20th century. You didn’t mess around with Yakey Yake Brady. ---
**Author:** ![alovem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@alovem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alovem)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2023, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-historians-a-question-about-early-20th-century-gangs/978584/4 "2023-01-23T06:18:06Z")
There’s a Charlie Rose interview with Martin Scorcese and Daniel Day-Lewis in which a number of gangs from that era and area are mentioned. More importantly, Scorcese refers to an author or book as a source of such information, if I’m not mistaken. You should have no trouble finding it on YouTube. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2023, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-historians-a-question-about-early-20th-century-gangs/978584/5 "2023-01-23T06:39:54Z")
it was herbert Asbury… he was pretty much the first true crime author in America … he also wrote about new Orleans Storyville district and other sordid people and places > **[Herbert Asbury](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Asbury)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > Herbert Asbury (September 1, 1891 – February 24, 1963) was an American journalist and writer best known for his books detailing crime during the 19th and early-20th centuries, such as Gem of the Prairie: An Informal History of the Chicago Underworld, The Barbary Coast: An Informal History of the San Francisco Underworld, Sucker's Progress: An Informal History of Gambling in America and The Gangs of New York. > The Gangs of New York was later ada... supposedly in later years, several authorities would use his expertise including the FBI as he personally knew more gangsters and hoodlums than anyone else ---
**Author:** ![Joeu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joeu/32/2911_2.png) [@Joeu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joeu)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2023, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-historians-a-question-about-early-20th-century-gangs/978584/6 "2023-01-23T16:41:04Z")
Lucy Sante’s _Low Life_ is a very fun read on the crimes and gangs of NYC around that time. Highly recommended! ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-historians-a-question-about-early-20th-century-gangs/978584/7 "2023-01-24T06:36:37Z")
I’ll definitely have to check that out. I’m eagerly waiting for several books by Asbury to enter the public domain, since I doubt they’re likely to be republished otherwise. I’m also waiting for _Old Bowery Days_ but since that was published in 1930 I have seven more years to wait. Thanks Mickey and go to hell. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-historians-a-question-about-early-20th-century-gangs/978584/8 "2023-01-26T12:19:08Z")
The movie _Gangs of New York_ was set 50 years before P.G. Wodehouse’s novels, though. I suppose a gang could have lasted that long, but it seems unlikely to me. ---
**Author:** ![alovem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@alovem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alovem)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-historians-a-question-about-early-20th-century-gangs/978584/9 "2023-01-26T13:08:52Z")
What are you disagreeing with? Nobody’s talking about the film. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2023, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-historians-a-question-about-early-20th-century-gangs/978584/10 "2023-01-31T06:58:59Z")
> [@MikeS](#): > > The movie _Gangs of New York_ was set 50 years before P.G. Wodehouse’s novels, though. True, but the Asbury book on which the movie was very loosely based covers the period from before the 19th century all the way up to the early 1920s; every gang from before the Dead Rabbits up to the Hudson Dusters is mentioned. The Herbert Asbury book I mentioned, covers an even longer stretch of time, from New Amsterdam up to the time it was published. This book also devotes considerable space to the NYC gang scene of the 19th and early 20th centuries. A couple of my distant ancestors from the 1600s are mentioned in it, though not as gangsters.