# NYC Mayor election thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 24, 2025, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-mayor-election-thread/1020085 "2025-06-24T17:40:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![NotEncinoMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@NotEncinoMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotEncinoMan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-mayor-election-thread/1020085/321 "2025-07-07T18:50:36Z")
> **[We Want to Hear From You: Are You Frustrated by Census and Racial Categories?](https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/04/us/census-racial-categories.html)** > > Americans are routinely asked to check off boxes about their race and ethnicity, but many say they do not see themselves reflected in the options. NY Times decides not to apologise for getting played by a racist. They sincerely want to hear from you on this difficult (for them) issue ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-mayor-election-thread/1020085/322 "2025-07-07T19:02:56Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Freeze rent for all 2 million rent stabilized apartments. This kind of Rent control just drives rental units out of the market. > [@DemonTree](#): > > - Creating a network of city-owned grocery stores that don’t have to pay rent or property taxes to reduce prices. Unfair competition. > [@DemonTree](#): > > - Permanently eliminate fares on all city buses, and build priority lanes and dedicated loading zones to speed them up. Free sleeping quarters for the homeless! > [@Babale](#): > > That’s what I figured; but then, I don’t understand why multiple people keep bringing it up as if it means anything. Yeah, at the very best it was a “funny once”. If that. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-mayor-election-thread/1020085/323 "2025-07-07T19:14:12Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Some people here have touched on the policies but yeah, the partisan reaction has grabbed most of the attention. The top half of the list is pretty standard fare for a left-progressive in a high cost of living city, but good luck getting it through the council, and doubly so the parts about making things free or sending min wage to twice what most others are advocating. The “pay for” proposal is where these would likely founder. If he isn’t going to be able to implement much of these plans, there’s really no reason for all the millionaires and establishment Dems to be having a cow about him getting elected. Trying to sabotage their own candidate is a bad look. > [@JRDelirious](#): > > But it’s not only they can’t stand anyone questioning their greatness. They can’t figure how come the general collective does not immediately see how the way _ **they** _ think the world should run is the right way, and they must correct that mistake! A common affliction. Luckily, most people cannot afford to pay for an advertising campaign to tell us all so. * * * > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Anyway, Mamdani immigrated when he was a small child. And i was born in this country. And i only learned after researching it for this thread that there’s a legal definition of “African American” that he doesn’t meet. Not that I’ve ever had occasion to care. But… It’s just not that big a deal. He didn’t get in. AIUI, ‘African-American’ refers specifically to descendants of people brought to America as slaves, because they don’t know exactly what countries their ancestors came from, and are anyway far enough removed from them that they have developed their own unique culture (isolation due to Jim Crow and general racism contributed to that). I wouldn’t expect a recent immigrant to know that, but I thought it was common knowledge among Americans, especially educated ones. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I’ll tell you a secret i inferred from interviewing a lot of kids for Harvard. Being an immigrant from Africa doesn’t actually gain you much preference (even before the ruling to stop doing that). Those African American preferences were for kids who grew up disadvantaged due to being Black, from families that inherited disadvantages from decades of racism. I’ve had some really promising kids who were Black immigrants from Africa, with professor parents, who weren’t accepted. If they’d been Black Americans, I’m pretty sure they would have been. This makes sense and is how I’d ideally expect such preferences to work. However, given diversity stats are reported based on the (somewhat nonsensical) Census categories, it’s plausible institutions might feel pressure to accept promising students from more advantaged backgrounds in order to bump up the numbers. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-mayor-election-thread/1020085/324 "2025-07-07T19:18:13Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@DemonTree](#): > > > > - Permanently eliminate fares on all city buses, and build priority lanes and dedicated loading zones to speed them up. > > Free sleeping quarters for the homeless! I could get behind this one. Every successful government has subsidized transportation, like all those roads built by the Roman empire. And when i lived in nyc, my subway station was used as an informal homeless shelter. It was warm, dry, and even had a tap providing clean water at the end of the platform. Late at night, someone would give the florescent lights a half twist, except in the “late night” waiting area, so it was dark. And in the morning, right before rush hour, a police officer would come by and twist all the lights back on, and gently prod the men who were still sleeping. (I watched this a few times, when i got to the station early.) The homeless men (they were all men, one to a bench) were pretty respectful of the space. It felt like a good use of space to me. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-mayor-election-thread/1020085/325 "2025-07-07T19:23:38Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > AIUI, ‘African-American’ refers specifically to descendants of people brought to America as slaves, because they don’t know exactly what countries their ancestors came from, and are anyway far enough removed from them that they have developed their own unique culture (isolation due to Jim Crow and general racism contributed to that). > > I wouldn’t expect a recent immigrant to know that, but I thought it was common knowledge among Americans, especially educated ones. I certainly knew that was the common meaning of the word. I didn’t realize it was the legal census meaning. And I’ve heard lots of people joke about being African American. After all, we _all_ come from Africa if you go back far enough. And I’ve certainly heard lots of people refer to Elon Musk as an African American. I mean, everyone knows he’s a privileged white dude. But you know, African and American. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-mayor-election-thread/1020085/326 "2025-07-07T20:01:01Z")
I thought it was crystal clear, based on the notes he made on the form, that he was trying to convey that he was Asian and born in Uganda. ETA: I am US born and consider myself well-informed, and this is the first I’ve heard about an official definition that limits “African-American” to the descendants of slaves. I guess that means if you’re black and your family immigrated from Africa as free people, you’re have no right to call yourself African-American…which seems odd to me. ETA2: If he hadn’t checked that box, the right wing would be ranting and raving about him “lying” about his place of birth. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-mayor-election-thread/1020085/327 "2025-07-07T20:19:51Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I am US born and consider myself well-informed, and this is the first I’ve heard about an official definition that limits “African-American” to the descendants of slaves. I’m pretty sure there’s no such thing. Definitely some civil rights activists have talked about the different experiences of Black Americans with multigenerational roots in the US going back to slavery, compared to the experiences of Black Americans who are more recent immigrants; Ibrim X. Kendi has written eloquently on the topic ([and sometimes just snarked on the question](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/10328778-an-ethnic-racist-asks-why-are-black-immigrants-doing-better), which is legit); but it’s a far cry from an analysis of these different experiences, and an official government definition. The closest I can find is from [Census.gov](http://Census.gov): [About the Topic of Race](https://www.census.gov/topics/population/race/about.html) > [@](#): > > **Black or African American** – A person having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa. > … > An individual’s response to the race question is based upon self-identification. The Census Bureau does not tell individuals which boxes to mark or what heritage to write in. > … > The racial categories included in the census questionnaire generally reflect a social definition of race recognized in this country and not an attempt to define race biologically, anthropologically, or genetically. In addition, it is recognized that the categories of the race item include racial and national origin or sociocultural groups. The much more interesting question here is about the NYTimes’s motives in amplifying the shenanigans of a white supremacist. The actions of these professionals and leaders in their field–not the actions of a teenager filling out an application–are newsworthy. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-mayor-election-thread/1020085/328 "2025-07-07T20:33:34Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The much more interesting question here is about the NYTimes’s motives in amplifying the shenanigans of a white supremacist. The actions of these professionals and leaders in their field–not the actions of a teenager filling out an application–are newsworthy. Exactly. What Mamdani did is a nothingburger. What the NYT did is somewhat disturbing. I subscribed to the NYT after Trump won his first presidential election. I dropped my subscription because i was unhappy with their alarmist and misleading coverage of covid. Their facts were accurate, but presented in misleading ways, IMHO. (And as an actuary, it’s often my job to present technical data clearly and honestly. My opinion isn’t actually very humble, and is pretty well informed on this topic.) I picked it up again when a friend offered me her free second copy. So i guess i am kinda supporting them again. But stiff like this makes me very uncomfortable. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-mayor-election-thread/1020085/329 "2025-07-07T21:01:22Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > this is the first I’ve heard about an official definition that limits “African-American” to the descendants of slaves. I’m not saying whether I agree with it or not, but I’ve heard this definition as a college student in the mid-90s. Recent immigrants from Africa would be identified as “Ethiopian-American” or “Ugandan-American” not “African-American” under this scheme. How popular this notion is, I don’t know, but I’ve heard it from more than one source from different racial groups. That said, I don’t think it’s the most common understanding of the term. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-mayor-election-thread/1020085/330 "2025-07-07T21:08:49Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I certainly knew that was the common meaning of the word. I didn’t realize it was the legal census meaning. And I’ve heard lots of people joke about being African American. After all, we _all_ come from Africa if you go back far enough. And I’ve certainly heard lots of people refer to Elon Musk as an African American. I mean, everyone knows he’s a privileged white dude. But you know, African and American. I think what I would expect every American to know is that ‘African American’ is ordinarily understood to mean ‘black’, and you shouldn’t identify yourself that way if you are not, even if it might be correct in a literal sense. That’s why the joke about Elon Musk is funny (or was the first time of way too many). And I take issue with the idea that someone who’s lived in America since he was 7, and who by his own account had a privileged upbringing, should not be expected to know this. It feels like maybe people are making unwarranted assumptions about him because he’s an immigrant, and based on his race and religion. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I subscribed to the NYT after Trump won his first presidential election. It has been observed before that media companies have a perverse incentive to get Trump elected, because he is so good for their bottom line. Everyday he creates a new outrageous story that they can use to draw more eyeballs, and sell ads and subscriptions. It’s unfortunate. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Their facts were accurate, but presented in misleading ways, IMHO. Always has been. This is how the liberal media spin and mislead without outright lying, on many different topics. Can’t believe everything you read. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > The homeless men (they were all men, one to a bench) were pretty respectful of the space. It felt like a good use of space to me. It’s the ‘respectful of the space’ that’s the issue. Twitter is full of people complaining they can’t take their kids on public transport because of people smoking crack/acting out violently/assorted other antisocial behaviour. And there have been several high profile cases of people punched and/or pushed onto subway tracks by homeless men. It doesn’t take too much of that before people start seeking alternatives. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-mayor-election-thread/1020085/331 "2025-07-07T21:13:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Unfair competition. Unfair competition against whom? I assume that the purpose of these city-owned grocery stores would be to fill in food deserts, where no commercial grocery store wants to be located. As for the race form, how should he have filled it out? Anything he put in based on the categories available on the form would have ended up misleading in one way or another. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-mayor-election-thread/1020085/332 "2025-07-07T21:19:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > This kind of Rent control just drives rental units out of the market. It’s okay, if the landlords can’t afford to do repairs due to the frozen rent, the city can simply expropriate their rental units. > [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@DemonTree](#): > > > > - Creating a network of city-owned grocery stores that don’t have to pay rent or property taxes to reduce prices. > > Unfair competition. According to the website, New York is already subsiding grocery stores. Is there an analysis of the likely results of this policy anywhere? The way I think Zohran Mamdani has done well is recognising that cost of living is what people care about most. His solutions may not be workable, and may not appeal outside NYC, but at least he’s focused on the right problem. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-mayor-election-thread/1020085/333 "2025-07-07T21:26:15Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Unfair competition against whom? I assume that the purpose of these city-owned grocery stores would be to fill in food deserts, where no commercial grocery store wants to be located. The purpose according to his platform is to lower grocery prices, which would necessitate undercutting existing stores. > [@Chronos](#): > > As for the race form, how should he have filled it out? Anything he put in based on the categories available on the form would have ended up misleading in one way or another. He should have ticked ‘South Asian’, and optionally written in that he was from Uganda. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-mayor-election-thread/1020085/334 "2025-07-07T22:06:54Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I could get behind this one. Every successful government has subsidized transportation, like all those roads built by the Roman empire. Well, in NYC it already is subsidized. But I was in San Jose when a version of this was tried. One night bus was always full of homeless and it required special cleaning afterwards. Is this a bad or evil thing? No, but just be aware of what will happen. > [@DemonTree](#): > > African-American’ refers specifically to descendants of people brought to America as slaves, No, since that was the standard US census/Government term for “black” back in the day. Some people seem to want it to go that way, true, but that is not it’s strict meaning. Just a style guide but- [Race and National Origin | National Institutes of Health (NIH)](https://www.nih.gov/nih-style-guide/race-national-origin#:~:text=An%20African%20American%20is%20a,Nigerian%20may%20also%20be%20used). _“An African American is a person whose origins are in any of the Black racial groups of Africa.”_ > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > ETA: I am US born and consider myself well-informed, and this is the first I’ve heard about an official definition that limits “African-American” to the descendants of slaves. It is the new way to define the term. But if you use it to mean "black person whose ancestors cam from Africa’ you are not wrong. > [@Chronos](#): > > Unfair competition against whom? I assume that the purpose of these city-owned grocery stores would be to fill in food deserts, where no commercial grocery store wants to be located. Not the way it was pushed- _Creating a network of city-owned grocery stores that don’t have to pay rent or property taxes to reduce prices_. > [@Chronos](#): > > As for the race form, how should he have filled it out? Anything he put in based on the categories available on the form would have ended up misleading in one way or another. If you are replying to me,- I dont care. This is America, you are what you Self Identify as. (Unless as a full member of a recognized Native tribe). He could have filed “Human” for all i care. > [@DemonTree](#): > > It’s okay, if the landlords can’t afford to do repairs due to the frozen rent, the city can simply expropriate their rental units. Who will run them, and "takings’ means the Government has to buy them at FMV. NYC doesnt have that kind of $$. " _projections show gaps of $5 billion, $6.1 billion, and $6 billion in the following three fiscal years, respectively, [according to NYC.gov](https://www.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor/news/467-25/-best-budget-ever-gets-even-better-mayor-adams-speaker-adams-reach-handshake-agreement-for)."_ Look, not all those ideas are bad, but I was a City Commissioner for 20 years- they are clearly not well thought out. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-mayor-election-thread/1020085/335 "2025-07-07T22:17:13Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > “An _African American_ is a person whose origins are in any of the Black racial groups of Africa.” This clearly can’t be the definition, because by this definition Nelson Mandela is African American. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-mayor-election-thread/1020085/336 "2025-07-07T22:33:01Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > This clearly can’t be the definition, because by this definition Nelson Mandela is African American. He would be if he resided in the USA. But he has been dead for a while now. Read in context. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-mayor-election-thread/1020085/337 "2025-07-07T22:41:15Z")
Yeah, that’s the Census definition, and for it to be relevant, the person has to be living in the US. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-mayor-election-thread/1020085/338 "2025-07-07T22:44:44Z")
I don’t really believe anyone actually cares about which boxes 17 year old Mamdani checked. This was purely a weak smear-attempt by the NYT. And it’s yet another example of how today’s corporate media cannot be trusted to do anything but hold to the line of their corporate masters. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-mayor-election-thread/1020085/339 "2025-07-07T22:46:42Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > This clearly can’t be the definition, because by this definition Nelson Mandela is African American. There’s a funny story about this idea that may be an urban legend: > [@](#): > > This is British gold medalist Kriss Akabusi’s interview after winning the gold medal in the 400 meter relay team at the 1991 Athletics World Championships. > > American reporter: “So, Kriss, what does this mean to you as an African-American?” > > Kriss: “I’m not American, I’m British” > > American Reporter: “Yes, but as a British African-American …” > > Kriss: “I’m not African. I’m not American. I’m British.” > > Repeat for several more iterations until the interviewer gives up… I think Americans of a certain age learned the term as a replacement for ‘black’, or whatever the previous favoured word was, so that’s how they used it. But Americans forgetting there is a world outside the US is also something of a meme. > [@DrDeth](#): > > _“An African American is a person whose origins are in any of the Black racial groups of Africa.”_ It still doesn’t include Mamdani. > [@DrDeth](#): > > If you are replying to me,- I dont care. This is America, you are what you Self Identify as. (Unless as a full member of a recognized Native tribe). He could have filed “Human” for all i care. Tell that to all the white women who got in big trouble for identifying as Native American (and not as full members of a recognised tribe, either). > [@DrDeth](#): > > Look, not all those ideas are bad, but I was a City Commissioner for 20 years- they are clearly not well thought out. I get the impression this is a major reason establishment Dems don’t like him - they think he’s going to mess up and make the party look bad. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-mayor-election-thread/1020085/340 "2025-07-07T23:24:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yeah, that’s the Census definition, and for it to be relevant, the person has to be living in the US. Fair enough, it makes some sense for the census. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-mayor-election-thread/1020085.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-mayor-election-thread/1020085.md?page=18)