# NYC Parking Structure **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 18, 2023, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-parking-structure/982871 "2023-04-18T21:41:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Eric1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3bc359/32.png) [@Eric1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eric1)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2023, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-parking-structure/982871/1 "2023-04-18T21:41:15Z")
57 Ann St., NYC parking structure collapse today-Do they know what the cause of it is yet? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2023, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-parking-structure/982871/2 "2023-04-18T21:49:08Z")
Any serious engineering investigation will take a year. Even a criminal investigation will take a month. Is there rampant speculation in the first hour? Sure. So are you asking what the final truth is, or what the speculation of the moment is? ---
**Author:** ![Eric1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3bc359/32.png) [@Eric1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eric1)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2023, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-parking-structure/982871/3 "2023-04-18T21:53:43Z")
In speculating, I have a friend who lives the next block so am trying to get ahold of him. I heard on NBC that a firetruck arrived but they’re trying to pull people out of the collapse. The mayor is coming to the building now but the street must be pretty safe if hes going there tonight. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-parking-structure/982871/4 "2023-04-19T01:11:37Z")
NYC parking garages are almost all valet, so unless someone was just entering or leaving the only people in the building should be the employees. All six of them have been accounted for, unfortunately with one fatality. It was a partial collapse & I’ve heard reports that (at least) one exterior wall is bowing so they’re afraid of further collapse. For that reason, along with any potential damage from the shock wave of the initial collapse buildings in the immediate vicinity are being evacuated until they can be inspected & confirmed to not have suffered structural damage. Right now they’re trying to stabilize the building to make it somewhat safe so that they can do a secondary search & make sure no one else was in there. Next they’ll bring in heavy equipment to relieve some of the weight stress & slowly make it much safer, probably craning cars off the roof to start with. Ignoring the fact that there are other buildings all around it in touching distance for a second they’re going to want to carefully dismantle it so that they can then inspect the suspected cause, probably one or more of the interior support columns - where they damaged due to someone driving into one? Where they damaged due to years of rain water in a leak eating away at the inside of the column much like a cavity in your tooth? Is the fact that today’s vehicles heavier than cars of 60 years ago a significant factor? All of the above? If you look at NTSB investigations as a model, when there’s a plane/train crash a preliminary cause will come out in a couple of weeks but the final cause will probably be more than a year away as @LSLGuy stated. Besides any potential criminal charges & evidence for civil cases, the Building’s dept will be interested in the outcome with an eye towards enhanced requirements/inspections/weight limits which will probably take many years to come to fruition ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-parking-structure/982871/5 "2023-04-19T01:26:27Z")
Another thread here. > [@Parking garage collapse in Lower Manhattan \[2023-04-18\]](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/parking-garage-collapse-in-lower-manhattan/982874): > > A parking garage has collapsed. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-parking-structure/982871/6 "2023-04-19T02:41:57Z")
Basically the parking garage was 100 years old and concrete is going to deteriorate over that time span. Cars are a lot heavier now than they were 100 years ago. They currently use valet parking now and consequently squeeze the cars in very tightly–and they may not have done this 100 years ago. Thus a lot more weight than it was designed for 100 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-parking-structure/982871/7 "2023-04-19T03:29:18Z")
We stayed at a hotel in Chelsea one time, and there was a neat swap meet that was held in the parking lot of the building across the street. I was aghast at the condition of the concrete - huge cracks and rusty rebar showing everywhere. I wouldn’t be surprised if we hear of garages being closed after some panicky inspections… ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-parking-structure/982871/8 "2023-04-19T11:42:00Z")
A similar incident occurred in Dallas, eerily with the same death/casualty numbers. A construction crane collapsed onto a rooftop parking garage in a storm, displacing ~500 apartment residents. IIRC, many of the cars were there for years before owners got them back. They’re still squabbling over fault, almost 4 years later. These poor folk in NY have a long, unpleasant experience ahead of them. I wonder how car insurance handles these disasters? If the car is unharmed but cannot be reached, do they pay out? Article from 2019: > **[1 Killed, 5 Hurt When Crane Collapses on Dallas Apartments](https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/dallas-crane-collapse-multiple-injuries/247458/)** > > One person is dead and five more are injured after a crane collapsed into an apartment building in downtown Dallas Sunday afternoon, according to Dallas Fire-Rescue officials. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-parking-structure/982871/9 "2023-04-19T12:18:17Z")
In a timely tidbit, over in the UK there is increasing concern that EVs, which weigh between 2 and 5x what 1960s cars did will prove to be too heavy to park in the UKs many, many aging and ill-maintained structures. In many ways NYC resembles the UK: extreme density that was built mostly built in the 1920s to1950s = coming up on 100 years old. And with foul weather and a long-standing tradition of landlords sweating their built assets rather than maintaining them. > **[Car parks could collapse under the weight of electric cars](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/04/08/old-car-parks-could-collapse-under-weight-electric-cars/)** > > Electric vehicles are typically much heavier than petrol or diesel cars, with their batteries accounting for a lot of the extra weight ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-parking-structure/982871/10 "2023-04-19T19:30:31Z")
> [@pullin](#): > > I wonder how car insurance handles these disasters? If the car is unharmed but cannot be reached, do they pay out? A friend of mine was in the Canadian Army and mentioned doing duty in Cyprus when it wa partitioned. He said there ws one spot where the wall was built such that there was a garage but the exit was blocked, a car had been sitting there for a decade or more… Form the news photos, the half that did not collapse in this L-shaped building is around the corner behind another building, so it will be a while before everything is leveled and they can get a crane in there - unless they are going to lift over the other building. The Sheriff’s department aparently parked cars up there, so they appear to have an issue with this… One news article mentioned outstanding building insprection issue, one from 2003 mentioned cracks in the first floor ceiling slab and concrete missing from some of the beams - no indication what was done to fix it. If I understand the history correctly, it was an old building that was repurposed as a garage (presumably, ramps added later). The front facade looks like a normal building with industrial windows, not a purpose-built garage. I wonder what engineering calculations they used to justify loading it up with heavy cars. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-parking-structure/982871/11 "2023-04-20T01:28:02Z")
Preliminary FDNY reports said Wednesday that the deadly collapse of a Financial District parking garage was likely caused by the building’s age and the number of cars on its top deck ---
**Author:** ![Eric1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3bc359/32.png) [@Eric1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eric1)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-parking-structure/982871/12 "2023-04-20T14:06:29Z")
Those are interesting factors there. I think what other dopers here are saying is these factors seem run-of the-mill. Mm-hm ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-parking-structure/982871/13 "2023-04-20T23:32:12Z")
I don’t think that electric cars are a significant weight issue. Certainly an electric car may be heavier than an equivalent modern car of similar size, but those Detroit monsters of the 50s and 60s were much heavier, as are the large numbers of modern SUVs and pickups. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-parking-structure/982871/14 "2023-04-20T23:45:28Z")
Yes, my Tesla Model 3 (4075lb) is not much heavier than my BMW (3880lb). I suspect neither is much heavier than some of those vans and SUV’s in the pictures. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2023, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-parking-structure/982871/15 "2023-04-21T02:17:43Z")
> [@Bookkeeper](#): > > …those Detroit monsters of the 50s and 60s were much heavier, as are the large numbers of modern SUVs and pickups. Maybe not. As the article linked below notes, while the cars in the 60s were physically bigger they were mostly air. Modern cars are more dense, have more crash protection and more electronics (electric motors for windows for instance). A 1967 Plymouth Fury III Wagon was a big car by any measure but weighed almost exactly the same as a modern Dodge Challenger (~4,200 lbs). A 1967 Ford Fairlane 500 weighed the same as a modern Ford Focus SE (~3,000 pounds). > **[50 years of car weight gain: from the Chevelle to the Sonic, the Fairlane to...](https://www.autoweek.com/car-life/classic-cars/a1860276/car-weight-comparison-1967-versus-2017/)** > > The 2017 Sonic hatchback weighs about the same as a 1967 Chevelle sedan ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2023, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-parking-structure/982871/16 "2023-04-21T02:22:40Z")
Some can get pretty heavy. The Audi e-tron 55 comes in just shy of 6,000 lbs. > **[Electric Cars From Heaviest To Lightest](https://insideevs.com/news/527966/electric-cars-from-heaviest-lightest/)** > > Today we will take a look at the weight of electric cars, which usually are much heavier than their conventional counterparts. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-parking-structure/982871/17 "2023-04-22T11:35:28Z")
The roof material doesn’t look the same as a carpark floor to me… far less sturdy. Its failed in a very overloaded roof fashion, like a roof which had too much snow on it… shattering like a bit glass… Carpark floor has greater integrity… The floors below held up better… in one piece… seems obvious to me, that roof was overloaded. ---
**Author:** ![Eric1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3bc359/32.png) [@Eric1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eric1)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-parking-structure/982871/18 "2023-04-22T12:58:52Z")
Ooh that’s a nice point, with the cars having been parked on top of a roof. I see what you’re saying, that the roof surface probably wasn’t made for parking cars. My friend lays down cement for a living and said it has different grades for it’s various functions.