# NYC Police Cops Bloody 84 Year-Old Asian Man for Jaywalking **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 21, 2014, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-police-cops-bloody-84-year-old-asian-man-for-jaywalking/679345 "2014-01-21T06:07:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-police-cops-bloody-84-year-old-asian-man-for-jaywalking/679345/41 "2014-01-21T19:30:53Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If I understand correctly this was done as part of an initiative to save New Yorkers from injury when they jay walk. And they only charge a $250 fine for their good deed (the beating was free but not the hospitalization). I can understand wanting to decrease the number of jay walking injuries and death. But pedestrians aren’t solely to blame, it’s the cars that kill the pedestrians. I’m okay with tickets and barriers and other things to decrease the amount of jaywalking, but I would hope that there’d also be efforts to improve the behavior of the car drivers that leads to the accidents. I agree with [this article in Gawker](http://gawker.com/jaywalkers-are-better-for-our-city-than-drivers-1505036187), that it’s strange that the thought behind the law for jaywalking is basically this: > [@](#): > > The flow of automobile traffic is accepted as an immutable fact of life; those weird enough not to be sheathed in cars must adjust or face severe penalties. Also I can understand why anyone would be confused by being ticketed for jaywalking. I’ve visited New York City a few times, and I remember tons of people jaywalking. Considering the number of pedestrians and the amount of jaywalking currently, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Gawker article is right and terrible crowds and would occur on most corners because people weren’t jaywalking. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-police-cops-bloody-84-year-old-asian-man-for-jaywalking/679345/42 "2014-01-21T19:59:38Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I don’t either. Many of the laws are written so that if you step out when it starts blinking you are in violation. It would seem to me that if you hustle over before it turns red then you’ve fulfilled your legal obligation. > [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > I can understand wanting to decrease the number of jay walking injuries and death. But pedestrians aren’t solely to blame, it’s the cars that kill the pedestrians. I’m okay with tickets and barriers and other things to decrease the amount of jaywalking, but I would hope that there’d also be efforts to improve the behavior of the car drivers that leads to the accidents. I agree with [this article in Gawker](http://gawker.com/jaywalkers-are-better-for-our-city-than-drivers-1505036187), that it’s strange that the thought behind the law for jaywalking is basically this: > > Also I can understand why anyone would be confused by being ticketed for jaywalking. I’ve visited New York City a few times, and I remember tons of people jaywalking. Considering the number of pedestrians and the amount of jaywalking currently, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Gawker article is right and terrible crowds and would occur on most corners because people weren’t jaywalking. OK, again, the jaywalking tickets are specifically targeting the intersection at 96th & Broadway. The deaths that have happened there are completely the fault of the pedestrians. They _did not_ have an orange blinking light. The cars had a green light and the people stepped directly into the path of oncoming traffic. (Both deaths also happened at night.) I know this for a fact because I cross that intersection every single day and know exactly how the light is set up. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-police-cops-bloody-84-year-old-asian-man-for-jaywalking/679345/43 "2014-01-21T20:05:23Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > I can understand wanting to decrease the number of jay walking injuries and death. But pedestrians aren’t solely to blame, it’s the cars that kill the pedestrians. I’m okay with tickets and barriers and other things to decrease the amount of jaywalking, but I would hope that there’d also be efforts to improve the behavior of the car drivers that leads to the accidents. I agree with [this article in Gawker](http://gawker.com/jaywalkers-are-better-for-our-city-than-drivers-1505036187), that it’s strange that the thought behind the law for jaywalking is basically this: The Gawker article is BS. The campaign to lower pedestrian deaths involves a lot of improved traffic enforcement measures and changes to traffic laws. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-police-cops-bloody-84-year-old-asian-man-for-jaywalking/679345/44 "2014-01-21T20:10:17Z")
I think Tom Selleck should be made police commissioner by acclamation. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-police-cops-bloody-84-year-old-asian-man-for-jaywalking/679345/45 "2014-01-21T20:20:29Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’ll tell you what I see. 5 officers in the frame shot who couldn’t manage to cuff an old man without hurting him. > > I don’t think I’ve mis-characterized the situation any. If you have any video of what took place that would help the discussion a bit. That’s a polite drag, especially with all those cameras clicking away. NBC channel 4 aired the footage they filmed yesterday. They were already at the interection reporting on a death earlier in the day. You feel bad for him because he is 84, but he isn’t senile or incapacitated. Your own link says “Wong handed the cop his license, but then tried to take it back when the cop started writing him a summons”. Since you brought up “common sense”, how much common sense does one need to have to know that when you are getting ticketed, you don’t take off? That shoving a cop priobably isn’t a good idea? And you don’t wrestle a cop for your license? You try doing that the next time you are getting a ticket and report back on what happens to you. Or are you going to use your common sense and not try and of those tactics? All day long the cops had been ticketing jaywalking pedestrians and drivers who failed to yield at that intersection. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-police-cops-bloody-84-year-old-asian-man-for-jaywalking/679345/46 "2014-01-21T20:29:54Z")
> [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > That’s a polite drag, especially with all those cameras clicking away. That’s a disturbing sentence unto itself. Is it possible you could, I dunno, share your video link so we could see it? ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-police-cops-bloody-84-year-old-asian-man-for-jaywalking/679345/47 "2014-01-21T20:30:29Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > but I would hope that there’d also be efforts to improve the behavior of the car drivers that leads to the accidents. All day long the cops had been ticketing jaywalking pedestrians and drivers who failed to yield at that intersection. There was a very funny lady who was on the news yesterday or the day before who had been ticketed at that intersection and said with a totally straight face (and a cop standing nearby) " I’m just thankful we ain’t hit nobody and nobody got killet". Jaywalking and failure to yield tickets are nothing new. I’ve jaywalked (along with every other New Yorker), but I check for cops first because I do know people who have been ticketed. And there was that time I saw a jaywalker get hit by a bus. People like to sprint into traffic because they are sure they will make it across before the vehicles get to them and never ever stop to think “What if I trip or fall?”. People love to play chicken with traffic, and taxis love to speed up and honk their horn. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-police-cops-bloody-84-year-old-asian-man-for-jaywalking/679345/48 "2014-01-21T20:30:56Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > The Gawker article is BS. The campaign to lower pedestrian deaths involves a lot of improved traffic enforcement measures and changes to traffic laws. What are the changes in traffic laws? ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-police-cops-bloody-84-year-old-asian-man-for-jaywalking/679345/49 "2014-01-21T20:35:17Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That’s a disturbing sentence unto itself. > > Is it possible you could, I dunno, share your video link so we could see it? I am at work and cannot play videos at leisure. Is it possible you could, I dunno, Google NBC 4 New York video and jaywalker? It’s a big news story here and most of the local channels had news crews there. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-police-cops-bloody-84-year-old-asian-man-for-jaywalking/679345/50 "2014-01-21T20:40:07Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > What are the changes in traffic laws? He’s lowering speeds in some residential zones, and trying to get the law changed to allow the city to use more traffic-cams (though apparently the latter requires Albany’s support, and so is still being debated). He’s also increasing the number of cops doing traffic enforcement by something like 50%, and some other increased enforcement measures. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-police-cops-bloody-84-year-old-asian-man-for-jaywalking/679345/51 "2014-01-21T20:42:11Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > Also I can understand why anyone would be confused by being ticketed for jaywalking. I’ve visited New York City a few times, and I remember tons of people jaywalking. By definition jaywalking usually isn’t a priority, and it’s a fact of life here. But you still need to be smart about it and a lot of people aren’t. Looking at this I’m wondering if there isn’t a feedback loop here: are the drivers more aggressive because pedestrians jaywalk at every opportunity? If the drivers feel they have to be aggressive or else they’ll get cut off by jaywalkers, that must make things worse. > [@](#): > > Considering the number of pedestrians and the amount of jaywalking currently, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Gawker article is right and terrible crowds and would occur on most corners because people weren’t jaywalking. It probably depends on where you are. 96th and Broadway is going to be crowded regardless. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-police-cops-bloody-84-year-old-asian-man-for-jaywalking/679345/52 "2014-01-21T20:44:30Z")
> [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > I am at work and cannot play videos at leisure. well I wouldn’t want to disturb you at work. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-police-cops-bloody-84-year-old-asian-man-for-jaywalking/679345/53 "2014-01-21T20:59:36Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > OK, again, the jaywalking tickets are specifically targeting the intersection at 96th & Broadway. The deaths that have happened there are completely the fault of the pedestrians. They _did not_ have an orange blinking light. The cars had a green light and the people stepped directly into the path of oncoming traffic. (Both deaths also happened at night.) I know this for a fact because I cross that intersection every single day and know exactly how the light is set up. Okay, that makes sense. If that intersection is unusually dangerous, it makes sense to issue more jaywalking tickets there, and then maybe people will jaywalk less there, even if they continue to jaywalk at other less dangerous intersections. > [@Simplicio](#): > > The Gawker article is BS. The campaign to lower pedestrian deaths involves a lot of improved traffic enforcement measures and changes to traffic laws. Okay, I’m glad to hear that there are improved traffic enforcement measures and changes to traffic law. Hopefully that will help everyoen’s safety. > [@Marley23](#): > > By definition jaywalking usually isn’t a priority, and it’s a fact of life here. But you still need to be smart about it and a lot of people aren’t. Looking at this I’m wondering if there isn’t a feedback loop here: are the drivers more aggressive because pedestrians jaywalk at every opportunity? If the drivers feel they have to be aggressive or else they’ll get cut off by jaywalkers, that must make things worse. I agree that people need to be smart about jaywalking. It seems obvious to me that pedestrians need to stay aware. I’ve seen pedestrians do stupid things, which is worrying when I see it when I’m also a pedestrian, and really scary when I see it and I’m a driver. You have a point that there might be a feedback loop, and that might make drivers more aggressive. I don’t know how to combat that, other than enforcement by cops, and maybe making the city more pedestrian friendly. If cars are often impeded by pedestrians, and that makes their travel take too long, then maybe some more people will start walking more instead of taking cars, which might help traffic. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-police-cops-bloody-84-year-old-asian-man-for-jaywalking/679345/54 "2014-01-21T21:15:30Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > I wouldn’t be surprised if the Gawker article is right and terrible crowds and would occur on most corners because people weren’t jaywalking. Tourists cause sidewalk crowding. They walk slowly; and three, four and five across. That backs things up. Way up. Not letting New Yorkers run free being the cause of terrible crowds on sidewalks is laughable. That reads like an Onion piece. Most New Yorkers don’t think waiting applies to them. Everything here is fast. No one wants to wait at an intersection. If there is a 3 second break in traffic, you are hardwired to make a run for it like a gazelle. It’s a sad fact that the herd gets thinnned sometimes, but pedestrian vehicle accidents cost the city a lot of money. Intersections and blocks have to be closed entirely or one lane only if there is more than one lane. Things come to a halt. People lose money. The city loses money. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-police-cops-bloody-84-year-old-asian-man-for-jaywalking/679345/55 "2014-01-21T21:18:49Z")
> [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > Tourists cause sidewalk crowding. They walk slowly; and three, four and five across. And stop in the middle of the sidewalk to take pictures. Sweet Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-police-cops-bloody-84-year-old-asian-man-for-jaywalking/679345/56 "2014-01-21T21:48:07Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You have clearly never been dragged and you’re not 84 years old. That can easily hurt an elderly person. Again, they managed to let his head strike something. His cheek is cut. His head was fine. Old people have very thin skin that damages easily. I’m not 84, but I have been dragged many times. It’s been a while, but the dead drag is the absolute worst. Especially if you are being heaved into a trunk or a box. No matter how much padding there is, you are guaranteed a bruise. Real trunks are better than trunks on a platform because the car has some give, but unfortunately unless it’s a long shot no one wants to see the dead hooker/housewife/mom/witness/co-ed bounce when she gets dropped. Kidnap/Struggle drags are ok, but under armpit holds can hurt if you aren’t fully clothed. Rescue drags are fun, usually because the guy is good looking and built. If you have to be dragged, it may as well be by a hot guy. Tip: Don’t ever agree to be dragged barefoot on an old barn floor. Since he has on a North Face jacket, I’d say he was well padded. I don’t want to bore you with all my dragging experiences, but I feel pretty confident in saying that drag didn’t hurt. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-police-cops-bloody-84-year-old-asian-man-for-jaywalking/679345/57 "2014-01-21T21:50:23Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > well I wouldn’t want to disturb you at work. You’re sweet! ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-police-cops-bloody-84-year-old-asian-man-for-jaywalking/679345/58 "2014-01-21T21:54:55Z")
> [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > … but I feel pretty confident in saying that drag didn’t hurt. I don’t know if participating hurts, but watching [bad drag](http://www.feastoffun.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Mimi-Imfurst2-thumb-FEB2011.jpg) can be very painful. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-police-cops-bloody-84-year-old-asian-man-for-jaywalking/679345/59 "2014-01-22T00:32:42Z")
> [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > His cheek is cut. His head was fine. Old people have very thin skin that damages easily. yes. Old people break easily. Already made that point. > [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > I’m not 84, but I have been dragged many times. It’s been a while, but the dead drag is the absolute worst. Especially if you are being heaved into a trunk or a box. No matter how much padding there is, you are guaranteed a bruise. Real trunks are better than trunks on a platform because the car has some give, but unfortunately unless it’s a long shot no one wants to see the dead hooker/housewife/mom/witness/co-ed bounce when she gets dropped. Kidnap/Struggle drags are ok, but under armpit holds can hurt if you aren’t fully clothed. Rescue drags are fun, usually because the guy is good looking and built. If you have to be dragged, it may as well be by a hot guy. Tip: Don’t ever agree to be dragged barefoot on an old barn floor. Since he has on a North Face jacket, I’d say he was well padded. I don’t want to bore you with all my dragging experiences, but I feel pretty confident in saying that drag didn’t hurt. I’ve had to assist a fair number of elderly people and lifting them under the arms is a painful venture for them. And I still can’t find a video of it happening. If you have that available it would be helpful. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-police-cops-bloody-84-year-old-asian-man-for-jaywalking/679345/60 "2014-01-22T00:48:34Z")
> [@Vagabond](#): > > Your comment is rude, unsolicited and adds nothing to the discussion. Nonsense. He was speaking plain fact. It is not realistic to expect people to learn a new language after a certain age. Certain individuals might have the talent, or the education, or the time, or the resources to manage it, but in the aggregate, most non-English speakers of a certain age are not going to learn English very eel or sometimes at all. Especially if they are tourists. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-police-cops-bloody-84-year-old-asian-man-for-jaywalking/679345.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-police-cops-bloody-84-year-old-asian-man-for-jaywalking/679345.md?page=4)