# NYT apologized for ACORN story, where are Doper apologies? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 4, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945 "2010-04-04T20:24:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/281 "2010-05-01T16:06:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You know, it may be impossible to separate the analogy from the participants, but I swear by all that I hold dear: yapping seems prefereable to leg-humping, no matter who’s doing it. > > YMMV, of ocurse. Really? I fucking HATE yappy little dogs. I think I’d really rather they just shut up and hump my leg, then fall asleep after a smoke. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/282 "2010-05-01T16:30:56Z")
> [@Plan\_B](#): > > ^^Your ability to overlook information that you don’t agree with is pretty impressive. Oh there is more. The films were a fake. They were spliced to create a lie . If you are comfortable with it, good for you. It was a scam. Fox ran with it and some people with an agenda blew it into a mess. A pile of lies killed ACORN. I am glad you are at peace with it. Please point out the prosecutions of ACORN workers. I suppose I missed them. Then follow with an explanation of the evidence that O’Keefe did not lie. Why are you OK with that? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/283 "2010-08-13T20:59:23Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > > [@Bricker](#): > > > > Well, I’m the first to admit I’m not a neutral observer, and it’s not my area of law. > > > > But even Judge Gershon acknowledges in her opinion that this is an issue of first impression – it’s a new application of the Bill of Attainder clause. So it’s beyond cavil to say that prior to this case, no court have ever held that denial of discretionary future funding implicated the Bill of Attainder clause. > > > > If Judge Gershon is upheld on appeal, we’ll have new law. > > Bricker, Bricker, Bricker. > When this issue came up. i cited several legal types with national reputations saying it was a Bill of Attainder. You said it was wrong. Now a Federal judge rules it was. I half hoped you would offer a response saying you were in error. > The preponderance of evidence is against you. you must forfeit half of your Legal hit points until you demonstrate that you can make legal points not slanted by your political bias. Well. as i said above, if the decision was upheld by the Courrt of Appeals, i would apologize and admit error on thbis point. i said i was waiting for the CoA because their decisions MAKE new law, which a district court does not. well, gonzomax? where is your apology, now that the law of the land is settled? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/284 "2010-08-13T21:34:50Z")
[http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5goHmEoyYhLPQ7xhPuFBAM-gBjbUAD9HIR1BO0](http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5goHmEoyYhLPQ7xhPuFBAM-gBjbUAD9HIR1BO0) **Bricker**. I’ve added the AP link to today’s decision. That might help. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/285 "2010-08-13T21:54:06Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > [http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5goHmEoyYhLPQ7xhPuFBAM-gBjbUAD9HIR1BO0](http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5goHmEoyYhLPQ7xhPuFBAM-gBjbUAD9HIR1BO0) > > **Bricker**. I’ve added the AP link to today’s decision. That might help. Yes. By the way, so far as I can tell, unanimous decision from a three-judge panel that included a Clinton / Carter appointee. The actions Congress took were NOT a Bill of Attainder. That’s the law of the Second Circuit. It’s precedent, binding, valid case law. **Gonzomax** , so eager to extract an apology on the basis of a legally flawed ruling, can now offer up his apology, as he was ready for me to do. Right, **Gonzomax**? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/286 "2010-08-13T22:20:11Z")
Behold, the mighty **Bricker** has bested **Gonzo** , and on a legal point! Hurry, gather around, that we might share in the gloating of the mighty, mighty **Bricker**! ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/287 "2010-08-13T22:25:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > > [@samclem](#): > > > > [http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5goHmEoyYhLPQ7xhPuFBAM-gBjbUAD9HIR1BO0](http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5goHmEoyYhLPQ7xhPuFBAM-gBjbUAD9HIR1BO0) > > > > **Bricker**. I’ve added the AP link to today’s decision. That might help. > > Yes. By the way, so far as I can tell, unanimous decision from a three-judge panel that included a Clinton / Carter appointee. > > The actions Congress took were NOT a Bill of Attainder. That’s the law of the Second Circuit. It’s precedent, binding, valid case law. > > **Gonzomax** , so eager to extract an apology on the basis of a legally flawed ruling, can now offer up his apology, as he was ready for me to do. > > Right, **Gonzomax**? If you pass a nutjob in the street talking about the end of the world coming tomorrow, do you come back in a week asking him to admit his error? Just because the mods allow idiots and lunatics to post doesn’t mean you should take them seriously. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/288 "2010-08-13T22:36:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > > [@samclem](#): > > > > [http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5goHmEoyYhLPQ7xhPuFBAM-gBjbUAD9HIR1BO0](http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5goHmEoyYhLPQ7xhPuFBAM-gBjbUAD9HIR1BO0) > > > > **Bricker**. I’ve added the AP link to today’s decision. That might help. > > Yes. By the way, so far as I can tell, unanimous decision from a three-judge panel that included a Clinton / Carter appointee. > > The actions Congress took were NOT a Bill of Attainder. That’s the law of the Second Circuit. It’s precedent, binding, valid case law. > > **Gonzomax** , so eager to extract an apology on the basis of a legally flawed ruling, can now offer up his apology, as he was ready for me to do. > > Right, **Gonzomax**? Well I guess when you spend 8 years gloating how good Bush is for the country then get the sharp stick of reality in the eye, you gotta nurse your wounds somehow. Enjoy your vanity. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/289 "2010-08-14T00:23:43Z")
Alternately, people could just take the high road, admit that **Bricker** called it right, and _move on_ without putting their spin or snark on it. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/290 "2010-08-14T00:29:38Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Alternately, people could just take the high road, admit that **Bricker** called it right, and _move on_ without putting their spin or snark on it. Ahem, the OP’s \*\*main \*\*point was the O’Keefe fake video that had ACORN as the target, The decision from the court does not deal with that item at all. But yeah, the gonzo was wrong regarding the Bill of Attainder. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/291 "2010-08-14T00:38:51Z")
And… the decision and the news article agrees with one point I made a long time ago: it was really pathetic for the right wing in America to crow so much for “defeating” a really small fry of an enemy. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/292 "2010-08-14T01:39:58Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Ahem, the OP’s \*\*main \*\*point was the O’Keefe fake video that had ACORN as the target, The decision from the court does not deal with that item at all. And if I had been addressing the main point, I would have been wrong. So? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/293 "2010-08-14T01:53:33Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > > [@Una\_Persson](#): > > > > Alternately, people could just take the high road, admit that **Bricker** called it right, and _move on_ without putting their spin or snark on it. > > Ahem, the OP’s \*\*main \*\*point was the O’Keefe fake video that had ACORN as the target, The decision from the court does not deal with that item at all. But yeah, the gonzo was wrong regarding the Bill of Attainder. [http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0909/Nadler\_ACORN\_ban\_unconstitutional.html](http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0909/Nadler_ACORN_ban_unconstitutional.html) Wrongo ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/294 "2010-08-14T01:53:46Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Just because the mods allow idiots and lunatics to post doesn’t mean you should take them seriously. On the other hand, conservatives need someone to feel superior to. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/295 "2010-08-14T02:01:56Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And.. the decision and the news article agrees with one point I made a long time ago: it was really pathetic for the right wing in America to crow so much for “defeating” a really small fry of an enemy. Not so sure. It isn’t wise to underestimate the Forces of Darkness. On the one hand, it might just be an attempt to justify their effort to make the Justice Department a wholly owned subsidiary of the Republican Party. But they had already gotten away with that, why remind the people about that sordid episode, even if offering some justification for it? They gibbered and greebed about vast hordes of falsely registered voters throwing the elections away from their rightful result, but there was never any solid result. It wasn’t ACORN registering fake voters that scared the FOD, it was ACORN registering real honest to gosh citizens. ACORN has been much underestimated by the intellectual left which tends to see old lefty Alinsky style organization as naive and unimportant, not flashy enough, doesn’t make the news. But it registers voters. Who vote. Its the long, slow, tiresome and disheartening road…but maybe it works a lot better than we gave it credit. Maybe that’s what set the FOD on the trail to back stab ACORN. Clearly, the had already spent considerable effort to depict ACORN as the modern political equivalent to SPECTRE, with Ernst Stavro Alinsky as its inspiration. And this opportunity fell into their unworthy laps like manna from Hell. If such is the lesson, and we take heed of it…this could be a very big gift. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/296 "2010-08-14T02:31:16Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > > [@GIGObuster](#): > > > > Ahem, the OP’s \*\*main \*\*point was the O’Keefe fake video that had ACORN as the target, The decision from the court does not deal with that item at all. But yeah, the gonzo was wrong regarding the Bill of Attainder. > > [http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0909/Nadler\_ACORN\_ban\_unconstitutional.html](http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0909/Nadler_ACORN_ban_unconstitutional.html) Wrongo Right, but Nadler was wrong. The bill stood up to court challenges. The appeals court just ruled that the bill wasn’t an unconstitutional bill of attainder. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/297 "2010-08-14T02:33:10Z")
You righties are assuming no more court decisions? It was clearly a bill of attainder. I will wait for the crappy ruling to be tossed out. But Obama neglected to broom the right wing judges who will make these stupid rulings. I hope he gets to it soon. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/298 "2010-08-14T02:41:54Z")
No. That is the way of Them, and their way is wrong. It takes enormous faith to press our cause, a faith that is gets the shit kicked out of it on a regular basis, the faith in the ultimate justice of a democratic way. Without it, we are just Tweedledum to Tweedledumber. No. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/299 "2010-08-14T03:22:30Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > You righties are assuming no more court decisions? It was clearly a bill of attainder. I will wait for the crappy ruling to be tossed out. But Obama neglected to broom the right wing judges who will make these stupid rulings. I hope he gets to it soon. Only places it can go from here to get reversed are the 2nd Circuit _en banc_, and the Supremes, and while it’s possible one of them will, I wouldn’t put money on it. And if you know how to get rid of an appellate court judge, let the President know, because basically, they’re in for life. And for better or for worse, whether this was a bill of attainder or not isn’t up to you, or to Jerry Nadler. It’s up to the courts. It’s not a bill of attainder until an unless a higher court rules it so. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/300 "2010-08-14T14:13:33Z")
So, let’s get this straight. When the district court issued its ruling, a ruling that set no precedent and was not binding as the law of the land, you said: > [@gonzomax](#): > > …i cited several legal types with national reputations saying it was a Bill of Attainder. You said it was wrong. Now a Federal judge rules it was. I half hoped you would offer a response saying you were in error. > The preponderance of evidence is against you. Now that a federal appeals court, which DOES set binding precedent and DOES create of the law of the circuit (so at least some land) has ruled the way I predicted, gainsaying your view, you say: > [@gonzomax](#): > > It was clearly a bill of attainder. I will wait for the crappy ruling to be tossed out. So apparently I would do just as well to to flip a coin under the “Heads you win, tails I lose” ruleset, eh? You know what? That’s just fine. You keep announcing your victories via unsupported claims on the SDMB to a chrous of agreement. I’ll keep seeing my victories pop up in actual court rulings which create actual law. I’m fine with that division. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945.md?page=16)