# NYT apologized for ACORN story, where are Doper apologies? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 4, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945 "2010-04-04T20:24:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/161 "2010-04-06T20:11:58Z")
Gosh, **Dio** , why didn’t you point that stuff out before? Can you doubt that if they were apprised of the facts, our tighty righty brethren would rush to our side? Why have you witheld these crucial pieces of information, so long hidden? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/162 "2010-04-06T20:14:10Z")
That’s it, all right. ACORN wasn’t target because they occasionally got handed bad registration forms by scammers, but because they were submitting way too many _valid_ registration forms for the comfort of the GOP. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/163 "2010-04-06T20:16:12Z")
What?! Gambling in Rick’s Place? Shocked! Shocked! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/164 "2010-04-06T20:32:02Z")
It’s tremendously sad to see an assertion that everything is about partisan advantage, “whose ox is being gored,” that there can be no higher principle involved because no higher principle can be conceived of, at least not by the person making that assertion. Yet we let such people vote. Yet some other people pay attention to what they say. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/165 "2010-04-06T21:36:57Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, if anyone sentenced ACORN to death, then maybe they need to apologize. Who did that, exactly? Well, not to single anyone out, but **Bricker** started a Great Debates thread titled: “ACORN workers caught on tape apparently advising on child prostitution.” Now given the current facts, that title should have read, “ACORN workers apparently illegally video taped by conservative activist in an attempt to discredit the organization through lies and manipulation to prevent the future registration of low income urban voters.” And not to single anyone else out, but there is this: > [@Bricker](#): > > But if we are funding organizations like ACORN to do community outreach and support, I would like them staffed with people that don’t respond like that. > > That’s a legitimate call for me (or Congress) to make. The “call” he is referring to was Congress preventing ACORN from receiving federal funds. As a result, ACORN has had to shut down (ie is dead). There are lots of others, I would hope they have the dignity to step forward. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/166 "2010-04-06T21:49:18Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Well, not to single anyone out, but **Bricker** started a Great Debates thread titled: “ACORN workers caught on tape apparently advising on child prostitution.” > > Now given the current facts, that title should have read, “ACORN workers apparently illegally video taped by conservative activist in an attempt to discredit the organization through lies and manipulation to prevent the future registration of low income urban voters.” I don’t see anything factually incorrect about **Bricker** ’s original title. > [@](#): > > And not to single anyone else out, but there is this: > > The “call” he is referring to was Congress preventing ACORN from receiving federal funds. > > As a result, ACORN has had to shut down (ie is dead). > > There are lots of others, I would hope they have the dignity to step forward. No. Calling for oversight of hiring practices isn’t the same as wishing them dead. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/167 "2010-04-06T22:08:51Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t see anything factually incorrect about **Bricker** ’s original title. > > No. Calling for oversight of hiring practices isn’t the same as wishing them dead. I didn’t say anything about wishing them dead. And no, nothing was factually incorrect, and neither was the one I made up. Except that mine paints a very different picture. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/168 "2010-04-06T22:51:02Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Who’s oxen is gored, **Bricker**? Yours. Mine. Ours, in the collective sense. ACORN wasn’t shafted because of faulty or lax personnel policy, nor were they screwed over because of accounting shenanigans. They were boned because they were effectively hurting Republican chances for electoral victory. No. Or more precisely: no, but they were _targeted_ for hurting GOP chances for victory. They were in fact shafted because of faulty or lax personnel policy; they WERE they screwed over because of accounting shenanigans. So when a business has a few code violations, no one cares. But when that business starts to affect the bottom line of comeptitors, those competitors will insist that inspectors visit and cite their rival. In the same way that the Democrats howled “Count every vote!” but fought to keep the military absentee ballots fomr being counted. And they were right to raise the question: if the rule says the ballot must be postmarked by X, and it’s X+3 days, then it’s not valid. But in anything other than a tight race, no one cares. So yes: they were targeted becaue of what they were doing. But they handed their executioners some rope. > [@](#): > > How do they get in personnel trouble? They trust. They hire people who could not get jobs elsewhere: recovering people, people who have had trouble with the law. They see such people as victims, in this they are right. But they see such people as inherently good, they accord victimization as an experience that brings out the better nature of people. In this they are wrong, when good people suffer injustice, they usually get stronger, but when bad people suffer, they get much, much worse. They are, to put it bluntly, naive. I do a fair amount of work at a local homeless shelter. And you’ve describedteh vast majority of the earnest lefties that work there, too. And I was a public defender, and you’ve described the bulk of my colleagues in that office. I agree with you. But … see, there’s a “but.” It’s not good control, not good business practice, to act like that. I’m sorry, but there it is. And if you’re taking federal funds, the feds have every right to say, “Be better shepherds of our money.” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/169 "2010-04-06T23:00:28Z")
But only if you’re ACORN. If you’re Lockheed-Martin or Blackwater you can do whatever the fuck you want. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/170 "2010-04-06T23:07:02Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > But only if you’re ACORN. If you’re Lockheed-Martin or Blackwater you can do whatever the fuck you want. I don’t oppose Congress sticking them with similar sanctions, assuming they have similar transgressions. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/171 "2010-04-06T23:26:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t oppose Congress sticking them with similar sanctions, assuming they have similar transgressions. But neither will you insist on it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/172 "2010-04-06T23:36:10Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > But neither will you insist on it. In the ten years and tens of thousands of posts I have made here, have I ever insisted Congress do anything? Why would I choose this issue to break that record? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/173 "2010-04-06T23:39:25Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > I didn’t say anything about wishing them dead. You said sentencing them to death. Is there a difference? If so, then change my remark to “sentencing them to death”. > [@](#): > > And no, nothing was factually incorrect, and neither was the one I made up. Except that mine paints a very different picture. Yours also doesn’t fit in the space allowed. Perhaps that’s why \*\*Bricker \*\*opted for the shorter version. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/174 "2010-04-07T01:05:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You said sentencing them to death. Is there a difference? If so, then change my remark to “sentencing them to death”… Welll, thats a pretty important distinction right there, if I grasp it correctly. I’m just a country boy, but seems to me that you’re pointing out that one might not wish another’s death, but be compelled by stern duty. Kinda like when they had to shoot Old Yeller! So there was a death sentence, but not exactly a wish for death, because ACORN had rabies and… Wait, no, I think I lost it there… Could you run that by me again, a bit slower? Hell, **Bricker** just proved to me that ACORN was complicit in their own demise, and I still haven’t untied that knot of rationale yet. Its like trying to catch earthworms writhing in motor oil using chopsticks! “Sure, they were the target, but that doesn’t mean anyone was out to get them!” Or something… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/175 "2010-04-07T01:26:21Z")
Got Rachel Maddow on right now. She says she has the unedited tapes and will talk about them after the break. Not sure if she’ll show the whole thing or not. I’m sure it’ll be on youtube shortly, if it’s not there already. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/176 "2010-04-07T01:41:10Z")
Turns out it’s just had the tapes from CA that Jerry Brown reviewed. And RM was really just out to slam FOX for the coverage they gave. Not that they deserve to be slammed for this, but it really doesn’t get to the tape(s) being referred to in the NYT article. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/177 "2010-04-07T03:23:00Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Turns out it’s just had the tapes from CA that Jerry Brown reviewed. Which is the point I was making earlier. There are a lot of tapes, with a lot of different accusations at each locations. The one commonality seems to be that nothing illegal was done by ACORN staff. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/178 "2010-04-07T03:28:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t oppose Congress sticking them with similar sanctions, assuming they have similar transgressions. Similar transgressions? I don’t understand what you mean? If I simply _suggest_ that Lockheed Martin was involved in voter fraud, is that enough? What if I doctor some video footage of their employees _saying_ stupid things, nothing illegal, is that enough? What is an employee steals from them? That would be awesome, we could really clean house. Or did you mean actually commit crimes? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/179 "2010-04-07T03:30:34Z")
A pity you stopped so short. Rather a good segment. The way it was presented on Fox, the ACORN was clearly conspiring to import minors for purposes etc. Segments left out show the selfsame person pressing for more info from our intrepid reporters. Writing it down. So he could…wait for it! TURN THEM IN! Call his cousin in the Mexican police, who connected him to local cops, and he TURNED THEM IN! He turned them in, did I mention that? Well, guess who didn’t? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945/180 "2010-04-07T03:38:00Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Or did you mean actually commit crimes? Yes. If we could point to, say, four criminal convictions of four different workers in a period of two months for voter fraud (or whatever the Lockheed equivalent of voter fraud is) then it would be appropriate to aply sanctions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-apologized-for-acorn-story-where-are-doper-apologies/534945.md?page=10)