# NYT article mental health and questionable statistics **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 25, 2022, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-article-mental-health-and-questionable-statistics/963417 "2022-04-25T16:08:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-article-mental-health-and-questionable-statistics/963417/21 "2022-05-11T14:36:45Z")
Adult completed suicide rates have fairly steadily and very significantly increased since at least 1990. True serious adult mental illness has definitely increased. There has also been destigmatization and more identification of mental illness both serious and not, perhaps even some pathalogizing of some of what is better consider as variations of normal as “disease”. I have no simple just so story that I believe explains it all. @SpacemanSpiff_II ‘s post points out the problems with some of those stories. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-article-mental-health-and-questionable-statistics/963417/22 "2022-05-11T15:12:14Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Adult completed suicide rates have fairly steadily and very significantly increased since at least 1990. True serious adult mental illness has definitely increased. > > There has also been destigmatization and more identification of mental illness both serious and not, perhaps even some pathalogizing of some of what is better consider as variations of normal as “disease”. Thank you. I’ve expressed previously my discomfort with many aspects of mental health care in terms of whether variations of normal are increasingly pathologized. You mention “destigmatization.” But a less charitable (though not necessarily inaccurate or unfair) view might be that claims of mental health disorders requiring accommodation have been enabled and/or encouraged. I am not for one second suggesting that there are not very real mental health conditions such as anxiety, depression, and PTSD which ought to be recognized and treated. But I am also suspect of a for-profit health care system which diagnoses conditions based largely if not entirely on subjective complaints, with considerable resulting secondary gains. What do you consider the strongest evidence that “True serious adult mental illness has definitely increased.” And, since you believe that is a fact, what do you (or the experts) believe are the most likely causes? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-article-mental-health-and-questionable-statistics/963417/23 "2022-05-11T15:40:39Z")
> [@yarblek](#): > > One interesting graph I found [here](https://doi.org/10.1176/appi.prcp.20190015): > [https://prcp.psychiatryonline.org/cms/10.1176/appi.prcp.20190015/asset/images/medium/rcp21002-fig-0001.png](https://prcp.psychiatryonline.org/cms/10.1176/appi.prcp.20190015/asset/images/medium/rcp21002-fig-0001.png) > [@DSeid](#): > > Here’s some longer trend data yet. Look at figure one. > > [https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2733430?utm\_source=For\_The\_Media&utm\_medium=referral&utm\_campaign=ftm\_links&utm\_term=051719](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2733430?utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_term=051719) > > The increase in young girls seems real and significant. It appears that Instagram launched in 2010. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-article-mental-health-and-questionable-statistics/963417/24 "2022-05-11T16:25:10Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > What do you consider the strongest evidence that “True serious adult mental illness has definitely increased.” And, since you believe that is a fact, what do you (or the experts) believe are the most likely causes? As stated the long term suicide completion rate increases since 1990 are extremely convincing. And as stated I do not have any just so story that I believe. I can make up ones but I am not convinced yet of any hypothesis. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-article-mental-health-and-questionable-statistics/963417/25 "2022-05-11T16:59:52Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > As stated the long term suicide completion rate increases since 1990 are extremely convincing. > > And as stated I do not have any just so story that I believe. I can make up ones but I am not convinced yet of any hypothesis. Which of the studies in this thread show the increases since 90? Sorry, but I have gotten confused. I saw the YRBS study showed no increase. I’m not a doctor, so I don’t understand the use of the term “just so story.” Conjures up images of legends/morals and such as in Kipling’s Just So Stories. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-article-mental-health-and-questionable-statistics/963417/26 "2022-05-11T17:49:07Z")
None of the studies in this thread as this thread was about kids, but CDC data that I have previously seen is the source for the statements I have made and show an increase of 30% since 2000 and 35% since 1990. Citations available upon request. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-article-mental-health-and-questionable-statistics/963417/27 "2022-05-11T17:53:28Z")
Adding. Yes Kipling just so stories is the reference. Making up reasons without data to back them up. More worthwhile if they make testable predictions. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-article-mental-health-and-questionable-statistics/963417/28 "2022-05-12T00:41:30Z")
Have a minute so a few citations for you. > **[Just-so story](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-so_story)** > > In science and philosophy, a just-so story is an untestable narrative explanation for a cultural practice, a biological trait, or behavior of humans or other animals. The pejorative nature of the expression is an implicit criticism that reminds the listener of the fictional and unprovable nature of such an explanation. Such tales are common in folklore genres like mythology (where they are known as etiological myths – see etiology). A less pejorative term is a pourquoi story, which has been us Th... [The up 30% 2000 to 2018.](https://www.cdc.gov/suicide/facts/index.html) [The up 35% since 1990.](https://www.nyaprs.org/e-news-bulletins/2020/1/31/cdc-us-suicide-rate-up-35-since-1990) Again, I am sympathetic to an argument that suggests some different ways of normal can be labeled as “disease” … it is in a way the same mindset that underpins the [“neurodiversity movement”](https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/what-is-neurodiversity-202111232645), which I also have some sympathy for. But this > [@Dinsdale](#): > > based largely if not entirely on subjective complaints is frankly silly. Subjective complaints are mostly what we have for many of these conditions. Anxiety, lack of pleasure, etc. … experiences are real and are subjective complaints. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-article-mental-health-and-questionable-statistics/963417/29 "2022-05-12T11:46:49Z")
Thanks for the term “just so stories.” I was not aware of that usage. And thanks for the stats. I regularly find myself confounded when I read what seems like ceaseless reporting of increased depression/anxiety/PTSD - especially among the young. I wonder if it is a true increase - or an increased reportage, with the goal of increasing awareness. And then I wonder what are the causes and solutions. Challenging indeed. > [@DSeid](#): > > Subjective complaints are mostly what we have for many of these conditions. Anxiety, lack of pleasure, etc. … experiences are real and are subjective complaints. I guess I should have expanded and said something like, **“based solely on subjective complaints, based on an insufficiently long relationship with the claimant and lacking sufficient corroboration.”** It is not at all uncommon for me to see a psychiatrist/psychologist diagnosing and opining as to severity based on little more than a single interview. Psychologists sure administer (and charge for) a barrage of tests. Surely those are presumed to be of SOME value. And my non-medical opinion s that mental health diagnoses ought to include assessment over time, including response to treatment and corroboration from objective third parties. Sure - anxiety is real. But so are secondary gains and the profit motive of American health care. 😉 And aren’t we really talking about one’s perception of and reaction to anxiety, rather than anxiety itself - which everyone who isn’t a sociopath experiences?? My job really feeds my cynicism, as the population I encounter is directly seeking monetary assistance due to medical impairments, and a sizable percentage of them is served by - um - not the cream of the medical crop. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-article-mental-health-and-questionable-statistics/963417/30 "2022-05-12T16:31:51Z")
We all are biased by our own experiences. Mine both by way of family and profession is that the need is great, objective testing of some but limited utility, and that barriers to getting care are best reduced not raised. Not sure which one of us has a greater selection bias but I suspect it’s yours. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-article-mental-health-and-questionable-statistics/963417/31 "2022-05-12T16:46:43Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Not sure which one of us has a greater selection bias but I suspect it’s yours. I probably agree with you. I readily acknowledge that the type of work I’ve done and the people I have encountered throughout my career has messed with my perception of people/society. A good part of that is likely due to my personal makeup. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-article-mental-health-and-questionable-statistics/963417/32 "2022-05-12T18:05:25Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I readily acknowledge that the type of work I’ve done and the people I have encountered throughout my career has messed with my perception of people/society. A good part of that is likely due to my personal makeup. The good thing is that you recognize that. Keep doing it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-article-mental-health-and-questionable-statistics/963417.md?page=1)