# NYT Crossword: "Total arithmetically" (open spoiler) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 9, 2018, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-crossword-total-arithmetically-open-spoiler/808494 "2018-02-09T04:05:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-crossword-total-arithmetically-open-spoiler/808494/1 "2018-02-09T04:05:19Z")
How is the answer to this ARE? ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-crossword-total-arithmetically-open-spoiler/808494/2 "2018-02-09T04:21:10Z")
My best guess: Start with the equation 2 + 2 = 4. Now, put it in words: Two plus two equals four. Or perhaps: Two plus two make four. Or perhaps: Two plus two ARE four. Like I said, my best guess. ---
**Author:** ![AppallingGael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9bd4f/32.png) [@AppallingGael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AppallingGael)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-crossword-total-arithmetically-open-spoiler/808494/3 "2018-02-09T08:39:03Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > My best guess: > > Start with the equation 2 + 2 = 4. Now, put it in words: > > Two plus two equals four. Or perhaps: > > Two plus two make four. Or perhaps: > > Two plus two ARE four. > > Like I said, my best guess. That’s certainly right. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-crossword-total-arithmetically-open-spoiler/808494/4 "2018-02-09T11:50:56Z")
If that’s what they mean, it’s a terrible clue. I’d be more inclined to think that an editorial mistake put the wrong clue on that number. Using “are” instead of “is” for the equals sign isn’t American usage, “total” refers to the plus sign rather than the equals sign (since you wouldn’t call 6\*9=54 a “total”), and “arithmetically” suggests that we should be using the math term rather than the story-problem term. Three errors in a two-word clue is pretty bad. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-crossword-total-arithmetically-open-spoiler/808494/5 "2018-02-09T14:10:14Z")
Seems like the answer should have been “sum.” ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-crossword-total-arithmetically-open-spoiler/808494/6 "2018-02-09T14:35:21Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Seems like the answer should have been “sum.” “[Two and two ARE four](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXi3bjKowJU)”? Sure. “Two and two SUM four”? No. I think the clue is fine. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-crossword-total-arithmetically-open-spoiler/808494/7 "2018-02-09T15:04:27Z")
“Two and two are four” is not used in American English because among other things it’s grammatically incorrect. You’re describing two values combining into one value, and thus you use the singular “is” because “two and two” is itself a singular value, not plural in this context. I agree with Chronos that it’s a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-crossword-total-arithmetically-open-spoiler/808494/8 "2018-02-10T04:43:30Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > “[Two and two ARE four](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXi3bjKowJU)”? Sure. “Two and two SUM four”? No. > > I think the clue is fine. In crosswords the standard is that a synonym clue must be able to be substituted grammatically correctly for the fill. To say Two and two total arithmetically four is incredibly awkward, counterintuitive, and nobody would really use this form of expression. I would have preferred “Add up to” which is in the same register of formality as “are”. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-crossword-total-arithmetically-open-spoiler/808494/9 "2018-02-10T11:39:38Z")
Well, now I’m on the fence as to whether or not there’s something wrong with the clue. There are people who blog about the NYT crossword, and neither of the ones I checked cry foul ([Thursday, February 8, 2018 |](http://crosswordfiend.com/2018/02/07/thursday-february-8-2018/#ny), [Rex Parker Does the NYT Crossword Puzzle: 1987 Robert Townsend satire / THU 2-8-18 / Month before Shawwal / Goddess often pictured in chariot / Biblical king who sought counsel of Witch of Endor](http://rexwordpuzzle.blogspot.com/2018/02/1987-robert-townsend-satire-thu-2-8-18.html)) cry foul, though one does mention it. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-crossword-total-arithmetically-open-spoiler/808494/10 "2018-02-10T21:07:03Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > “Two and two are four” is not used in American English because among other things it’s grammatically incorrect. You’re describing two values combining into one value, and thus you use the singular “is” because “two and two” is itself a singular value, not plural in this context. I agree with Chronos that it’s a mistake. I may be old, but I still remember how addition was introduced in elementary school right smack in the middle of the U.S.: “1 and 1 are two. 1 and 2 are three. 1 and 3 are 4.” etc. etc. It was common enough that it was in the lyrics of the [Inchworm](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXi3bjKowJU) song in the classic American movie Hans Christian Anderson: > [@](#): > > Two and two are four. > Four and four are eight. > Eight and eight are sixteen. > Sixteen and sixteen are thirty-two. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-crossword-total-arithmetically-open-spoiler/808494/11 "2018-02-21T07:28:34Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > In crosswords the standard is that a synonym clue must be able to be substituted grammatically correctly for the fill. To say > > Two and two total arithmetically four > > is incredibly awkward, counterintuitive, and nobody would really use this form of expression. I would have preferred “Add up to” which is in the same register of formality as “are”. This rule would be “two and two total four” which is perfectly apt. The “arithmetically” is a extra hint, not part of the synonym. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-crossword-total-arithmetically-open-spoiler/808494/12 "2018-02-21T09:52:13Z")
Yes, although I think a comma after “total” would have been nice, to isolate the synonym part. I suppose it’s not an easy word to write a clue for. You can use the definition ARE, a metric unit of area, or try to do something with the more familiar definition. The best clue that I know of for this word is: Modern art (because what was once “thou art” is now “you are.”) ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-crossword-total-arithmetically-open-spoiler/808494/13 "2018-02-21T12:07:00Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > This rule would be “two and two total four” which is perfectly apt. The “arithmetically” is a extra hint, not part of the synonym. Then I would have used total, arithmetically ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-crossword-total-arithmetically-open-spoiler/808494/14 "2018-02-21T15:28:38Z")
Another way to clue a super-common word like this is to give a quote with a blank, such as “Such stuff as dreams \_\_\_ made on” (3 letters). Mind you, most clues for a word like “are” are going to end up being pretty easy, but that’s OK, not all of the clues in a puzzle are going to be tricky. Though I have to say, I like **Ximenean** ’s suggestion of “Modern art”. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-crossword-total-arithmetically-open-spoiler/808494/15 "2018-02-21T16:58:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > …Though I have to say, I like **Ximenean** ’s suggestion of “Modern art”. Agreed. Nice and sneaky clue. If you think of ‘Total’ as a noun rather than a verb the answer is obvious, although grammatically a comma should follow it. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-crossword-total-arithmetically-open-spoiler/808494/16 "2018-02-22T03:47:19Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Then I would have used > > total, arithmetically That would be improper comma use. Arithmetically, total. This is correct. Total arithmetically. This is correct. Total, arithmetically. This is incorrect. Best [reference](http://theeditorsblog.net/2016/02/21/a-tale-of-adverbs-and-the-comma/) I could find quickly. > [@](#): > > Another group of words also operate as sentence adverbs, yet they aren’t opinion adverbs. If there’s a special name for these adverbs, I don’t know what it is. The folks at Oxford Dictionaries online say these particular sentence adverbs “place the sentence in a particular context.” > > The adverbs in this list could easily be followed by the word speaking—politically speaking, generally speaking, scientifically speaking. Follow them with commas when they’re used at the beginnings of sentences. Keep in mind that some of these can also be used as regular adverbs to modify individual words. > > **Alphabetically, I comes before M. > He arranged his files alphabetically.** > > Medically, there was no hope. > The coma was medically induced. > > Religiously, his answer made sense. > He religiously washed his car every Tuesday. > > Generally [speaking], men don’t seek death for no reason. > Generally Brad didn’t enjoy musicals. Emphasis mine. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-crossword-total-arithmetically-open-spoiler/808494/17 "2018-02-22T03:57:16Z")
[Better reference](https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/grammar/sentence-adverbs). ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-crossword-total-arithmetically-open-spoiler/808494/18 "2018-02-22T15:07:07Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > That would be improper comma use. No it wouldn’t. This is not a complete sentence; this is a crossword clue. The word “arithmetically” acts as a parenthetical phrase so is set off by a comma. The key in the clue is “total” and the comma indicates that the clue is going to provide a clarification as to the context of the keyword. This is a different meaning than “total arithmetically” or “arithmetically total.” ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-crossword-total-arithmetically-open-spoiler/808494/19 "2018-02-22T18:11:40Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > No it wouldn’t. This is not a complete sentence; this is a crossword clue. The word “arithmetically” acts as a parenthetical phrase so is set off by a comma. The key in the clue is “total” and the comma indicates that the clue is going to provide a clarification as to the context of the keyword. This is a different meaning than “total arithmetically” or “arithmetically total.” I mean, you can believe this if you want, but crossword clues follow OED grammar rules and this is clearly a proper use. They are obligated to make the clue correct, not easy. Using a parenthetical would have made this little more obvious, but that’s not their goal. The clue is 100% appropriate and accurate, it’s not a bad clue. Saying they should have made it easier misses the point. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-crossword-total-arithmetically-open-spoiler/808494/20 "2018-02-22T20:01:10Z")
The clue is not accurate. Nobody would ever say “Two and three total arithmetically five”, and that’s the only meaning (among many) of “are” or “total” that comes even close to matching. You _might_ be able to make a case for “arithmetically total”, but that’d still be a stretch. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-crossword-total-arithmetically-open-spoiler/808494.md?page=2)