# NYT = Grey Lady? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 21, 2003, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-grey-lady/176555 "2003-05-21T14:18:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![drhess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/94ad74/32.png) [@drhess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drhess)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-grey-lady/176555/1 "2003-05-21T14:18:11Z")
Why is the NY Times nicknamed the “gray lady” or “grey lady” ?😃 ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-grey-lady/176555/2 "2003-05-21T14:31:57Z")
It still printed in black and white long after most newspapers had switched to color. They only started used color on October 16, 1997. ---
**Author:** ![drhess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/94ad74/32.png) [@drhess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drhess)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-grey-lady/176555/3 "2003-05-21T14:50:20Z")
So the nickname is recent? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-grey-lady/176555/4 "2003-05-21T15:40:49Z")
I think the point is that when the paper switched to color it was no longer completely accurate. I did a quick google search but couldn’t find out when it was first used, but it likely was around the time that other papers started going to color. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-grey-lady/176555/5 "2003-05-21T16:00:57Z")
While I don’t have a cite, it’s my impression that the nickname is far older than the use of color in newspapers. The Times has, for more than a century, been viewed as the sober, formal, “colorless” alternative to the racier tabloids. The “gray” moniker may have served to distiguish it from “yellow journalism,” or may be even older than that. ---
**Author:** ![Humble\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/47e85d/32.png) [@Humble\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Humble_Servant)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-grey-lady/176555/6 "2003-05-21T18:32:43Z")
A page layout with lots of “white space,” like headlines with large-type letters, big margins, charts, logos, masthead, table of contents, etc. breaks up the monotony of a page and makes it easier to read. This idea went over big (too big, some would say) with the tabloids–screaming headlines and photos (or drawings in the olden days) dominate. The NYTimes, being a “serious” paper, doesn’t stoop to this stuff. It publishes long articles, with lots of depth and detail. This makes its front page look “gray” because it has more solid words (type) per square inch than most other papers. Even in the days before color, it had a higher density of words (versus space, pictures, etc.). Times do change, of course, and the NYTimes does now have slightly more “interest” material on its front page; but it is still “grayer” than many othe papers. ---
**Author:** ![Rocket](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@Rocket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocket)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-grey-lady/176555/7 "2003-05-21T18:39:18Z")
I had never heard this nickname either. I did some online searches and none of the references related to the NYT. Most were in reference to (1) Lady Jane Grey, (2) Grey Lady Down (the C. Heston submarine movie), (3) Grey Lady Down (the progressive rock band named for the movie), and (4) Harry Potter. My first thought upon hearing this was that it was some relational mnemonic to the Statue of Liberty. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-grey-lady/176555/8 "2003-05-21T18:44:54Z")
**Humble Servant** above has it right. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-grey-lady/176555/9 "2003-05-21T19:00:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rocket \* > \*\*I had never heard this nickname either. I did some online searches and none of the references related to the NYT. Most were in reference to (1) Lady Jane Grey, (2) Grey Lady Down (the C. Heston submarine movie), (3) Grey Lady Down (the progressive rock band named for the movie), and (4) Harry Potter. > \*\* Try using the American spelling “gray” (not “grey”). “Gray lady” “New York Times” gets 2,840 hits n Google. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-grey-lady/176555/10 "2003-05-21T19:03:24Z")
But even “grey lady” “new york times” gets 740 hits. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-grey-lady/176555/11 "2003-05-21T22:09:59Z")
Google results: Gray - 10.1 million hits Grey - .6 million hits Grei - .061 million hits Grai - .014 million hits Greigh - .0008 million hits “gravy lady” - .00002 million hits ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-grey-lady/176555/12 "2003-05-21T22:42:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by moriah \* > \*\*Google results: > > Gray - 10.1 million hits > Grey - .6 million hits > Grei - .061 million hits > Grai - .014 million hits > Greigh - .0008 million hits > “gravy lady” - .00002 million hits \*\* What’s your point? The hits I mention virtually all were using “Gray/Grey Lady” as a nickname for the Times. ---
**Author:** ![cleops](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/2acd7d/32.png) [@cleops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cleops)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-grey-lady/176555/13 "2003-05-21T23:38:17Z")
Yes, the NYT has been known far and wide for lo these many years as the “Gray Lady.” I have seen it so referred to in other publications, usually in the context of criticizing the supposed stodginess of the paper. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-grey-lady/176555/14 "2003-05-22T02:57:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Colibri \* > \*\*What’s your point? > > The hits I mention virtually all were using “Gray/Grey Lady” as a nickname for the Times. \*\* It’s a Google Fight! I.e., a competition game played among some avid Googlers (I’m an ixquicker myself). You simply look up two adversarials terms, in this case, gray v. grey, and see which gets the most hits. (Some anglophiles and colonists were starting to get into a row about the correct spelling.) Which is more popular ketchup or catsup (or even vs. mustard?). A Google Fight will settle it. ## Peace. moriah - 137,000 hits Colibri - 230,000 hits you win.