# NYT Poll "Voters See Democracy in Peril, but Saving It Isn’t a Priority" **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 18, 2022, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-poll-voters-see-democracy-in-peril-but-saving-it-isn-t-a-priority/973448 "2022-10-18T16:55:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-poll-voters-see-democracy-in-peril-but-saving-it-isn-t-a-priority/973448/1 "2022-10-18T16:55:32Z")
[Story here](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/18/us/politics/midterm-election-voters-democracy-poll.html) That was a chilling headline to wake up to. I guess that about wraps it up for us. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-poll-voters-see-democracy-in-peril-but-saving-it-isn-t-a-priority/973448/2 "2022-10-18T17:00:37Z")
“Every nation gets the government it deserves.” - Joseph de Maistre ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-poll-voters-see-democracy-in-peril-but-saving-it-isn-t-a-priority/973448/3 "2022-10-18T18:23:06Z")
Not following. At least half of the people that see democracy in peril vote Team R, right? Maybe more? Because their leader lied about it? Those are the people that are going to want to overturn “wrong” results. “Saving democracy” is either going to end in dictatorship or endless balkanization. I’ll take apathy any day of the week over those. I don’t want a shooting war because of something a lying sack of shit says, and splitting into different countries after every election isn’t going to end well either. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-poll-voters-see-democracy-in-peril-but-saving-it-isn-t-a-priority/973448/4 "2022-10-18T19:02:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Voters See Democracy in Peril, but Saving It Isn’t a Priority Tell me how to save it, and I’ll make it a priority. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-poll-voters-see-democracy-in-peril-but-saving-it-isn-t-a-priority/973448/5 "2022-10-18T20:48:49Z")
Why does this surprise anyone? The average American may understand, at least on some level, that climate change is an existential threat, but how many of us are willing to make even minor changes in our lives? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-poll-voters-see-democracy-in-peril-but-saving-it-isn-t-a-priority/973448/6 "2022-10-18T20:56:19Z")
Remember the aphorism, “Mussolini made the trains run on time?” Even if the saying wasn’t true, it shows that people tend to prioritize practical, immediate, economic issues over abstract things like ideals or democracy. Democrats better wake up in a hurry and get that inflation under control or 2024 will be even worse. Households having to pay $800 more per month for food, utilities, etc. than before isn’t a joke, and many fat-cat politicians are out of touch on this. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-poll-voters-see-democracy-in-peril-but-saving-it-isn-t-a-priority/973448/7 "2022-10-18T22:32:36Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Democrats better wake up in a hurry and get that inflation under control Yes, I’m quite certain the Republicans will be more than happy to vote for whatever the Democrats propose. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-poll-voters-see-democracy-in-peril-but-saving-it-isn-t-a-priority/973448/8 "2022-10-18T23:05:11Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Democrats better wake up in a hurry and get that inflation under control Give me a break. Why don’t you start a thread with how the Democrats can get inflation under control. You can lay out your arguments (make sure you include inflation in the Euro zone and UK, because that’s really high as well) and we can rip them apart. It’s too much of a hijack for this thread, but I’ve heard someone specifically say I should vote Republican because inflation is so high and it pissed me off then, too. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-poll-voters-see-democracy-in-peril-but-saving-it-isn-t-a-priority/973448/9 "2022-10-18T23:15:41Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Tell me how to save it, and I’ll make it a priority. I would be in favor of having central control over national elections to an extent, such that they disallow laws enforcing voter IDs, race-based redistricting to disenfranchise minorities, and closing of polling places in minority-heavy areas (and disallowing mail-in voting). There are lots of very transparent efforts to disenfranchise people and the states can practically do anything they want because they have full control over how they conduct their elections (regardless of who is on the ticket). ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-poll-voters-see-democracy-in-peril-but-saving-it-isn-t-a-priority/973448/10 "2022-10-18T23:17:24Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I would be in favor of having central control over national elections to an extent, such that they disallow laws enforcing voter IDs, race-based redistricting to disenfranchise minorities, and closing of polling places in minority-heavy areas (and disallowing mail-in voting I’m with you. How do we accomplish this? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-poll-voters-see-democracy-in-peril-but-saving-it-isn-t-a-priority/973448/11 "2022-10-18T23:18:56Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > How do we accomplish this? Oprah is a proponent of the idea that having positive thinking can bring positive reality into play, so we can try that. Otherwise, I dunno. Vote in politicians who also care? For as long as voting works at least. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-poll-voters-see-democracy-in-peril-but-saving-it-isn-t-a-priority/973448/12 "2022-10-19T04:25:09Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I would be in favor of having central control over national elections to an extent, such that they disallow laws enforcing voter IDs, race-based redistricting to disenfranchise minorities, and closing of polling places in minority-heavy areas (and disallowing mail-in voting). There are lots of very transparent efforts to disenfranchise people and the states can practically do anything they want because they have full control over how they conduct their elections (regardless of who is on the ticket). I would tend to agree with those efforts. However, about half the country seems to think that those are the very things that are putting democracy in peril, so enacting more of them isn’t likely to bring down the overall level of concern. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-poll-voters-see-democracy-in-peril-but-saving-it-isn-t-a-priority/973448/13 "2022-10-19T05:32:30Z")
I can’t read the article because of the paywall. But one interpretation of the headline is that people recognize that democracy is in peril but also recognize that there are other greater problems that need to be addressed first. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-poll-voters-see-democracy-in-peril-but-saving-it-isn-t-a-priority/973448/14 "2022-10-19T10:21:23Z")
Here’s a quote from the article: > [@](#): > > “I don’t believe that their opinion on whether or not the election was quote unquote stolen is important,” said Michael Sprang, 47, a senior electronics technician and independent from Jackson, Mich. “I’m far more concerned about their stance on policies that actually matter.” > > He added: “I’m more concerned about how you feel about the Second Amendment. How do you feel about the First Amendment? How do you feel about the state of the economy?” ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-poll-voters-see-democracy-in-peril-but-saving-it-isn-t-a-priority/973448/15 "2022-10-19T11:02:52Z")
> **[Voters See Democracy in Peril, but Saving It Isn’t a Priority](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/18/us/politics/midterm-election-voters-democracy-poll.html?unlocked_article_code=C2gANbJuZk7gihfyaZ-FpPy1t79NoLMloxmX7c8eNiGhz7pK_tDpDz6JtvQpwSqNDbbb0WZ0Pf8NDQsK6FSqiqz_QY3Cf2McK9XrANsx211lWnIxuO1OrP2FmBEGaxWBOIDyyh0guqOZxiXSdQ6odn8P0HK95fYH6ArYdYuuGJgCWCj9dXGat-1ubWCGbodAynjM066eyU8gOiCQtILYF7Cv27pUOFDM4YheQdGVLOG6wL-hp6QNFcbhRnKlhLeBHAa8Xu1U4A_ZKFKMWWC_RJLTU8O0lWF5_EONGXgUo2miROJLhHYUZ2SYjK_xsyKT26Z_PiFoRbusMnBt8R6WKBZwqrTNyv-8TxwshyMROiA37Frv&smid=share-url)** > > A New York Times/Siena College poll found that other problems have seized voters’ focus — even as many do not trust this year’s election results and are open to anti-democratic candidates. Gift link. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-poll-voters-see-democracy-in-peril-but-saving-it-isn-t-a-priority/973448/16 "2022-10-19T11:28:44Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Vote in politicians who also care? For as long as voting works at least. Voter: Do you care? Rep:Yes Voter: What did you do about it? Rep: Voted for a bill that was sent to the senate and died. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-poll-voters-see-democracy-in-peril-but-saving-it-isn-t-a-priority/973448/17 "2022-10-19T11:59:42Z")
Based on the lede in @commasense’s gift link I think I see the problem. We now have two competing definitions of “democracy”. The Ds think it means everyone gets a vote and everyone’s interests are served. The Rs think it means only their supporters get a vote and only their interests are served. Both groups are correct that their definition of democracy is in peril. But that’s not the right question to have asked. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-poll-voters-see-democracy-in-peril-but-saving-it-isn-t-a-priority/973448/18 "2022-10-19T12:26:27Z")
I’ve been watching this, and for this and other reasons have been thinking we’re doomed. The economy, and its various subsets including inflation, unemployment, the stock market, interest rates, et cetera, are certainly important. But they tend to go to hell in countries with authoritarian regimes. If we lose democracy, all the other things that matter, far more than just the economy, will probably be awful soon. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-poll-voters-see-democracy-in-peril-but-saving-it-isn-t-a-priority/973448/19 "2022-10-19T13:20:46Z")
ISTM that this discussion incorporates my 2 favorite “x vs. y” concepts. Abstract vs. Concrete - For many, “Democracy” is a fuzzy abstract concept. As others have pointed out, different people might have different definitions. It’s not like, oh, say, electricity. If you told people that electricity was in peril they would certainly say saving it was a priority. Electricity is concrete, everyone understands it the same way. But Saving Democracy!!11! as a top priority doesn’t have the traction. Frankly, both sides have trotted out the same trope that the other side is “Destroying America!” so often that most rational folks kinda say, “Yeah, yeah, sure they are.” and hand-wave it away. So, saying Democracy is in Peril fills the same brainspace. Now, _ **those of us who have been paying attention** _ are, of course, more passionate about this idea. Political vs. Policy - For many, maybe just a gut feeling, but a lot of what goes on in campaigns and elections is understood to be “just politics”. We see the endless ads and it’s all overheated made up sh\*t, from both sides (yes, it’s definitely asymmetrical, but still…). The goal, of course, is to get elected. Once in office, it is (should be) more about enacting policy. So, it’s hard to separate the Democracy in Peril threat from the political bucket, and instead put it into the policy bucket. Going back to my first statements, I suspect there are many who don’t think it really _ **really** _ matters how our representatives are seated. Again, _ **those of us who have been paying attention** _ are, of course, more passionate about this idea. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-poll-voters-see-democracy-in-peril-but-saving-it-isn-t-a-priority/973448/20 "2022-10-19T15:01:28Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > Gift link. Thank you. There does seem to be an element of what I described. Some of the people interviewed seemed to feel that while our voting system is in trouble, there are other greater issues we need to work on first. The economy seemed to be the main one that was mentioned. That said, there also seemed to be an element of apathy in play. People seemed to feel the our voting system is in trouble but seemed resigned to it rather than feeling it’s a problem that can be addressed. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-poll-voters-see-democracy-in-peril-but-saving-it-isn-t-a-priority/973448.md?page=2)