# NYT report on Benghazi should be a wakeup call to liberals too **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 7, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-report-on-benghazi-should-be-a-wakeup-call-to-liberals-too/678141 "2014-01-07T16:20:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-report-on-benghazi-should-be-a-wakeup-call-to-liberals-too/678141/21 "2014-01-07T22:42:15Z")
**Cognitive Dissonance** , I’m not sure what you are getting at. > [@Miller](#): > > So, why should I give more credence to your observations than my own? Never said you should. I expressed my opinion here on IMHO, as I’m wont to do. I would be curious though to know why you think Sam Harris wrote what I linked to if there was no substance to it? ETA: **Quercus** , it’s not like I said all the evildoers in the world are Muslim. But I would say that while I’m against all religions, Islam seems the worst, AINEC. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-report-on-benghazi-should-be-a-wakeup-call-to-liberals-too/678141/22 "2014-01-07T22:45:19Z")
I, for one, have decided to renounce my affiliation with radical Islam. Note: this is a sarcastic comment. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-report-on-benghazi-should-be-a-wakeup-call-to-liberals-too/678141/23 "2014-01-07T22:57:24Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I would be curious though to know why you think Sam Harris wrote what I linked to if there was no substance to it? Because he’s an asshole? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-report-on-benghazi-should-be-a-wakeup-call-to-liberals-too/678141/24 "2014-01-07T23:05:18Z")
See, now I think Harris is completely awesome. I can’t think of any other public figure, or for that matter anyone I know personally, whose views I more consistently and strongly endorse. So what about him IYO makes him an asshole? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-report-on-benghazi-should-be-a-wakeup-call-to-liberals-too/678141/25 "2014-01-07T23:09:54Z")
Well, I read this one column of his where he grossly distorts the positions of liberals in regards to religious tolerance in order to make a fundamentally bigoted argument. That was pretty assholish. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-report-on-benghazi-should-be-a-wakeup-call-to-liberals-too/678141/26 "2014-01-07T23:17:47Z")
If you are yourself a liberal, **Miller** , your calling him “bigoted” shows it not to be a straw man at all. ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-report-on-benghazi-should-be-a-wakeup-call-to-liberals-too/678141/27 "2014-01-07T23:18:43Z")
SlackerInc, you’re quite right for the most part. All religions are poisonous, but Islam is one of the worst, at least these days. At other times in history, the situation was different. Many, many people on the left are afraid to criticize Islam, for fear of being thought racist. Thankfully, European feminists and LGBT advocates know better. While they do/will need to import workers, there are lots of available non-Muslims out there, in order to even out the balance. That, and citizenship can be made conditional on being taught the modern values of the receiving country. Nobody is born with religion. Usually, parents put that drivel into their children’s brains, but in any case, it’s a choice. All is not lost. Take the long view. It wasn’t that long ago that even Afghanistan had a government that was touting feminism and state atheism. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-report-on-benghazi-should-be-a-wakeup-call-to-liberals-too/678141/28 "2014-01-07T23:22:33Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > They don’t admit that’s their main reason. But you know that it is because? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-report-on-benghazi-should-be-a-wakeup-call-to-liberals-too/678141/29 "2014-01-07T23:23:38Z")
That was an awesome government, true. Which makes Carter’s Olympic boycott especially wrongheaded. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-report-on-benghazi-should-be-a-wakeup-call-to-liberals-too/678141/30 "2014-01-07T23:27:30Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > If you are yourself a liberal, **Miller** , your calling him “bigoted” shows it not to be a straw man at all. If you think the logic there makes sense, I guess it’s no wonder you’re a fan of Harris. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-report-on-benghazi-should-be-a-wakeup-call-to-liberals-too/678141/31 "2014-01-08T00:05:07Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > I hear they so obsessed with death that they even [kill doctors](http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/31/kansas.doctor.killed/index.html) and blow up buildings full of innocent people. > > Wait, McVeigh is a Muslim name, isn’t it? I’m pretty sure that the Islamic Death Cult hasn’t trademarked the term. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-report-on-benghazi-should-be-a-wakeup-call-to-liberals-too/678141/32 "2014-01-08T00:41:28Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > I hear they so obsessed with death that they even [kill doctors](http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/31/kansas.doctor.killed/index.html) and blow up buildings full of innocent people. > > Wait, McVeigh is a Muslim name, isn’t it? are you implying that Mcveigh killed in the name of a particular religion? ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-report-on-benghazi-should-be-a-wakeup-call-to-liberals-too/678141/33 "2014-01-08T02:35:06Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > are you implying that Mcveigh killed in the name of a particular religion? FWIW, McVeigh was an agnostic. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-report-on-benghazi-should-be-a-wakeup-call-to-liberals-too/678141/34 "2014-01-08T02:40:30Z")
> [@OurLordPeace](#): > > FWIW, McVeigh was an agnostic. Actually, he was associated with the [Christian Identity](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Identity) movement. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-report-on-benghazi-should-be-a-wakeup-call-to-liberals-too/678141/35 "2014-01-08T03:25:40Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Actually, he was associated with the [Christian Identity](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Identity) movement. [Actually he wasn’t](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh). there’s nothing in his bombing of the Federal Building that is remotely attributed to any religious affiliation or cause. You simply cited something on the internet and made a claim with nothing within the cite to back it up. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-report-on-benghazi-should-be-a-wakeup-call-to-liberals-too/678141/36 "2014-01-08T04:00:20Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > [Actually he wasn’t](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh). there’s nothing in his bombing of the Federal Building that is remotely attributed to any religious affiliation or cause. You simply cited something on the internet and made a claim with nothing within the cite to back it up. No, I mentioned something fairly well known, and provided a link clarifying the definition of the phrase “Christian Identity” - not a “cite” of anything - for anyone who had no idea what Christian Identity meant. ---
**Author:** ![JayD294](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@JayD294](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JayD294)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-report-on-benghazi-should-be-a-wakeup-call-to-liberals-too/678141/37 "2014-01-08T04:03:15Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Many are understandably gloating over the way [this report](http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/columnist/rieder/2014/01/01/firsthand-reporting-on-benghazi/4261913/) rebuts many of the feverish paranoiac claims from the right. But that is only because it is now clear that much of the violence really did stem from rioting _in response to a YouTube video_. This after previous riots in many Muslim countries _in response to a Danish cartoon._ > > Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins get it. The late Christopher Hitchens got it. When will the rest of the secular progressive community wake up to the fact that Muslims are not our allies just because they are the bogeymen of our domestic political adversaries? I’ll go one step farther and propose that Sunni and Shia Islam are not our allies under any circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-report-on-benghazi-should-be-a-wakeup-call-to-liberals-too/678141/38 "2014-01-08T04:21:38Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No, I mentioned something fairly well known, and provided a link clarifying the definition of the phrase “Christian Identity” - not a “cite” of anything - for anyone who had no idea what Christian Identity meant. No, you didn’t provide something fairly well known. He was an agnostic. Which was in the cite I provided. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-report-on-benghazi-should-be-a-wakeup-call-to-liberals-too/678141/39 "2014-01-08T05:05:50Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I would be curious though to know why you think Sam Harris wrote what I linked to if there was no substance to it? > [@Miller](#): > > Because he’s an asshole? > [@SlackerInc](#): > > See, now I think Harris is completely awesome. If A + B = C, if A is a real number greater than zero (don’t make me pull up Miller’s posts as cites) and if A \> C, then by the properties of addition, doesn’t A - C = B? I love it when I can cement an initial opinion with a proof. 😛 > [@JayD294](#): > > I’ll go one step farther and propose that Sunni and Shia Islam are not our allies under any circumstances. One Small cost of wood and nails. One Short Pier for Bigotry. 😉 PS- an Awful lot of new lock-step FOX talking point conservative posters lately. Are the Koch Brothers boiler rooms firing up early for an election year? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-report-on-benghazi-should-be-a-wakeup-call-to-liberals-too/678141/40 "2014-01-08T05:15:52Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > PS- an Awful lot of new lock-step FOX talking point conservative posters lately. To whom does this refer? As the OP, I certainly hope you don’t mean me! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-report-on-benghazi-should-be-a-wakeup-call-to-liberals-too/678141.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-report-on-benghazi-should-be-a-wakeup-call-to-liberals-too/678141.md?page=3)