# NYT Spelling Bee drives me crazy **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** board-card-word-game\ **Created:** [December 17, 2023, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-spelling-bee-drives-me-crazy/994739 "2023-12-17T15:50:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-spelling-bee-drives-me-crazy/994739/101 "2024-02-28T14:36:20Z")
You mentioned the same word in this thread on January 12. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-spelling-bee-drives-me-crazy/994739/102 "2024-02-28T14:51:21Z")
True. Still haven’t gotten an answer. Not that I really need one. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-spelling-bee-drives-me-crazy/994739/103 "2024-02-28T14:53:33Z")
And yet it doesn’t accept barcar. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-spelling-bee-drives-me-crazy/994739/104 "2024-02-28T15:05:09Z")
What’s a “barcar”? It’s not in wiktionary, it’s in [m-w.com](http://m-w.com) as two words, it’s not in [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com). It’s not valid in SOWPODs (an extensive Scrabble dictionary combining two popular word lists.) I think it might be reasonable to have two word lists: maybe one large extensive one that is there for bonus points or bragging rights or something, and one for the actual scoring words. Or something like that. When I did my “Lingo” game, I had one curated word list that was used to pick out the mystery words and another much larger word list for validating what are valid words for guesses. But the dynamic of that game is a little bit different. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-spelling-bee-drives-me-crazy/994739/105 "2024-02-28T15:17:38Z")
It is, or was the car on Metro-North with a bar serving alcoholic drinks. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-spelling-bee-drives-me-crazy/994739/106 "2024-02-28T15:19:26Z")
I’ve always called that a “bar car” with the space. That sounds like some local industry stylized spelling. LIke if SOWPODs doesn’t accept it, it must be a proper noun or a nonce word, as they have over 250K words in their Scrabble acceptable wordlist. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-spelling-bee-drives-me-crazy/994739/107 "2024-02-28T15:23:29Z")
I think those of us who aren’t subscribers interact with this game in a very different fashion from those who are. We get kicked out after reaching “solid”, which is rarely difficult. So for us, the game is about finding some good longer words before entering enough easy short stuff to get kicked out. This makes it really frustrating when you see a good long word, like ‘monotonic’ or ‘abattoir’ and it isn’t accepted. But it really doesn’t matter if there are a bunch of ultra-obscure words that the game would accept that we can’t find, because we never get up to that point. Subscribers, or at least many of them, seem to be trying to find every word on the solution list, and don’t want to be ‘required’ to find ridiculously obscure words. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-spelling-bee-drives-me-crazy/994739/108 "2024-02-28T15:25:58Z")
Yes, we are. My goal is queen bee. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-spelling-bee-drives-me-crazy/994739/109 "2024-02-28T15:27:03Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Subscribers, or at least many of them, seem to be trying to find every word on the solution list, and don’t want to be ‘required’ to find ridiculously obscure words. That’s definitely how my mother-in-law plays. She’d probably get upset if some of the more obscure words mentioned were needed to get all the words on the solution list. (I am surprised a bit that “abattoir” is obscure, though “monotonic” I can go either way on, not having ever heard the word, but looks familiar enough.) ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-spelling-bee-drives-me-crazy/994739/110 "2024-02-28T15:36:20Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I am surprised a bit that “abattoir” is obscure, though “monotonic” I can go either way on, not having ever heard the word, but looks familiar enough. Remember, the criterion isn’t being objectively obscure. The criterion is being obscure to Sam Ezersky. Most everyone has their own idiosyncratic list of which words are obscure and which aren’t, and no player’s list is going to align with Sam’s. I still think the game should accept everything in some dictionary like the Scrabble dictionary. If Sam wants to compile a list of “non-obscure” (to him) words to generate the score required to reach the highest level in the game, that’s fine, but why punish people for finding the words he thinks are obscure? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-spelling-bee-drives-me-crazy/994739/111 "2024-02-28T15:40:02Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > The criterion is being obscure to Sam Ezersky. Honestly, for me that’s fine enough. Somebody has to be the arbiter. I am absolutely against the Scrabble dictionary, except being used to get some “bonus” points maybe or who knows. There are just too many words there. I’d be more happy with a list of the top X thousand English language words and go with that. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-spelling-bee-drives-me-crazy/994739/112 "2024-02-28T15:54:24Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Honestly, for me that’s fine enough. IMO it makes the game feel classist. A lot of the words that I get rejected are words that seem unremarkable to guy who grew up on a farm, like ‘tappet’ as mentioned in the OP (a component in the valve train of an internal combustion engine), or ‘peening’ the other day (what one does to a rivet using a ball peen hammer). Or ‘winching’ as mentioned upthread, which I can’t imagine _anyone_ thinking obscure. But hoity-toity French cooking terms that aren’t even proper English are accepted. Also, I disagree with your point about there being too many words in the Scrabble dictionary. This only matters if your goal in solving the puzzle is to find every word. If your goal in the puzzle is to find as many words as possible, the fact that there are some ridiculously obscure Scrabble-accepted words you didn’t find isn’t relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-spelling-bee-drives-me-crazy/994739/113 "2024-02-28T15:55:10Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > I still think the game should accept everything in some dictionary like the Scrabble dictionary. That would make the game endless, or reduce the acceptable letter sets. Even with Sam’s limits on words in place, the spelling bee has cleared 500 points for Queen Bee twice. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-spelling-bee-drives-me-crazy/994739/114 "2024-02-28T15:58:42Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > If your goal in the puzzle is to find as many words as possible, the fact that there are some ridiculously obscure Scrabble-accepted words you didn’t find isn’t relevant. Ok. I find that acceptable. That’s not the current game mechanic, but that’s a reasonable way to do it. I also suggested Scrabble words as “bonus” words so you can have the original game in there while also having something for the real word nerds. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-spelling-bee-drives-me-crazy/994739/115 "2024-02-28T16:05:50Z")
Oof, those cars were something else back in the smoke-'em-if-you-got-'em days of old. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-spelling-bee-drives-me-crazy/994739/116 "2024-02-28T16:10:37Z")
Sam could make his list as he currently does, and use that to set the perfect score for the day. Then you could enter any word in the game’s dictionary. Once you reach the “perfect” score you can play on if you choose. Then the next day you can compare the words you used to reach the perfect score to the words Sam used. That seems more fun to me than trying to find all the words on Sam’s list, but only those. Thinking on it more, I think what bugs me about the current format is a certain sort of unfairness that falls out from finding different things obscure. The way the game is currently, you are penalized for not knowing words that are obscure to you but not Sam, but you don’t get to make that back by knowing words that are obscure to Sam but not you. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-spelling-bee-drives-me-crazy/994739/117 "2024-02-28T16:14:14Z")
Yeah, but that’s really any word game. I’ve played dozens and all the word games I’ve played on computers have had edited word lists, so it’s somewhat arbitrary what “rarer” word you know and it doesn’t and vice versa. I find this true for every computer/phone word game except for Scrabble, I suppose. There’s nothing unique about Sam doing what everyone else does. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-spelling-bee-drives-me-crazy/994739/118 "2024-02-28T20:01:29Z")
As a football fan, I was somewhat peeved today when crackback wasn’t accepted. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-spelling-bee-drives-me-crazy/994739/119 "2024-02-29T03:57:01Z")
I was annoyed that “corm” wasn’t allowed yet. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-spelling-bee-drives-me-crazy/994739/120 "2024-02-29T03:59:10Z")
> [@Jaycat.again](#): > > It’s [spellsbee.com](http://spellsbee.com). Not the same as the Times? - Nope. Great, now I’ll have to start getting up a half hour early. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-spelling-bee-drives-me-crazy/994739.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-spelling-bee-drives-me-crazy/994739.md?page=7)