# NYT to air McCains affair with Lobbyist tomorrow. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 21, 2008, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-to-air-mccains-affair-with-lobbyist-tomorrow/438513 "2008-02-21T04:24:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2008, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-to-air-mccains-affair-with-lobbyist-tomorrow/438513/121 "2008-02-25T02:05:52Z")
[The Times’ own ombudsman agrees with me.](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/24/opinion/24pubed.html?_r=1&hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print) Smart fellow, that. **Squink** , surely you know that, in a political campaign, helping or hurting one candidate _is_ hurting or helping his opponent. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2008, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-to-air-mccains-affair-with-lobbyist-tomorrow/438513/122 "2008-02-25T02:41:48Z")
Nope. If that were the case then _every_ article which supplies _any_ information upon which one might base a judgement of a candidate would count as advocacy. That’s absurd. The only mention of Clinton or Obama in the ombudsman’s piece is a quote from an Obama supporter. The ombudsman never suggests that the original piece was written for the benefit of those democratic candidates; so I guess the ‘smart fellow’ disagrees with you too. [QUOTE=CLARK HOYT] The pity of it is that, without the sex, The Times was on to a good story. [/QUOTE] Even without the sex, the story skewered McCain quite nicely. Are you now claiming that was inapropriate too? With that sort of PC filter in place, how do you expect anyone to ever learn anything about the candidates? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2008, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-to-air-mccains-affair-with-lobbyist-tomorrow/438513/123 "2008-02-25T03:08:39Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] Nope. If that were the case then _every_ article which supplies _any_ information upon which one might base a judgement of a candidate would count as advocacy. That’s absurd. [/quote] No, the absurd thing is to misunderstand the point so thoroughly. The article’s purpose was to trash _one particular_ candidate. Not to “supply information” - as we’ve seen, there wasn’t any real information here. See the difference? :dubious: > [@](#): > > Even without the sex, the story skewered McCain quite nicely. It raised allegations, but without adequate context to make any judgments about it. Both of which points I’ve made quite clear. Oh well, horse, water … ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2008, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-to-air-mccains-affair-with-lobbyist-tomorrow/438513/124 "2008-02-25T03:31:58Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] as we’ve seen, there wasn’t any real information here… [/QUOTE] Ah, the royal we wears blinders, and is a mindreader: [QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] The article’s purpose was to trash one particular candidate. [/QUOTE] I guess you’ll just have to disagree with me and the ombudsman here: [QUOTE=CLARK HOYT] The pity of it is that, without the sex, The Times was on to a good story. [/QUOTE] I’ve seen a lot of discussion these past few days about McCain’s relations with lobbyists. Now maybe you think the press should not report on such matters, since doing so might influence citizens to vote for someone else, but I’m heartly sick of the endless stream of McCain fluff pieces. Actual meat is _good_ for democracy. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2008, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-to-air-mccains-affair-with-lobbyist-tomorrow/438513/125 "2008-02-25T03:44:47Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] I’ve seen a lot of discussion these past few days about McCain’s relations with lobbyists. Now maybe you think the press should not report on such matters, since doing so might influence citizens to vote for someone else [/quote] I’ve been quite clear, as I’ve said. You need to do your part too, though. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Actual meat is _good_ for democracy. Exactly. But this wasn’t it. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2008, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-to-air-mccains-affair-with-lobbyist-tomorrow/438513/126 "2008-02-25T03:46:22Z")
Uh oh, now the AP is advocating Obama: [Democrats seek FEC probe of McCain](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080225/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_fec_2) Will the madness never end ?! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2008, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-to-air-mccains-affair-with-lobbyist-tomorrow/438513/127 "2008-02-25T07:21:18Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] No, the absurd thing is to misunderstand the point so thoroughly. The article’s purpose was to trash _one particular_ candidate. Not to “supply information” - as we’ve seen, there wasn’t any real information here. See the difference? :dubious: It raised allegations, but without adequate context to make any judgments about it. Both of which points I’ve made quite clear. Oh well, horse, water … [/QUOTE] I think we understand that you think that they shouldn’t run a piece without pictures of the dead girl or live boy. To each his own. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2008, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-to-air-mccains-affair-with-lobbyist-tomorrow/438513/128 "2008-02-26T00:23:35Z")
Just on the off chance that you’re somehow, appearances notwithstanding, willing to discuss the matter _responsibly_: What do \*you \* think the story is? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2008, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-to-air-mccains-affair-with-lobbyist-tomorrow/438513/129 "2008-02-26T01:28:45Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Just on the off chance that you’re somehow, appearances notwithstanding, willing to discuss the matter _responsibly_: What do \*you \* think the story is? :dubious: [/QUOTE] My take on the story is pretty much what Keller said in the link. I had posted my take before reading Keller’s, so that is some evidence that Keller wasn’t blowing smoke. Hey, I agree that a Senator in bed with lobbyists (either literally or figuratively) isn’t Pullitzer Prize material, but it is a story. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2008, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-to-air-mccains-affair-with-lobbyist-tomorrow/438513/130 "2008-02-26T01:42:52Z")
Damn shame they led with the affair crap instead then, innit? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-to-air-mccains-affair-with-lobbyist-tomorrow/438513/131 "2008-02-27T18:41:08Z")
Lets see him explain away the Keating Five fun and games. Why was he the only one to escape with his career. The films are still around. They will be shown. Lobbyist tool then lobbyist tool now. He got caught red handed and has tried to make it look like he learned a lesson. Apparently not. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2008, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-to-air-mccains-affair-with-lobbyist-tomorrow/438513/132 "2008-02-29T01:36:11Z")
Glenn “escaped with his career” too. Of the other 3, 2 served out their terms (and were old and plausible retirement candidates anyway), the other took an appointed job. Maybe the magnitude of the facts was less than the magnitude of the scandal yet again? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2008, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-to-air-mccains-affair-with-lobbyist-tomorrow/438513/133 "2008-03-02T00:45:16Z")
> **[Keating Five](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keating_Five)** > > The Keating Five were five United States Senators accused of corruption in 1989, igniting a major political scandal as part of the larger savings and loan crisis of the late 1980s and early 1990s. The five senators—Alan Cranston (Democrat of California), Dennis DeConcini (Democrat of Arizona), John Glenn (Democrat of Ohio), John McCain (Republican of Arizona), and Donald W. Riegle, Jr. (Democrat of Michigan)—were accused of improperly intervening in 1987 on behalf of Charles H. Keating, Jr., chai... I suppose your right . Costing the tax payers more than 3 billion is not worth much when compared to this admin. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyt-to-air-mccains-affair-with-lobbyist-tomorrow/438513.md?page=6)