# NYTimes obtains partial 1995 Trump tax records **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 2, 2016, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444 "2016-10-02T01:56:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/1 "2016-10-02T01:56:58Z")
As you may recall, 1995 was about the nadir of Trump’s business empire, as he was vastly overextended on multiple hotel and casino deals. Anyhoodily, apparently an anonymous source [snail-mailed the Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-taxes.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news) the first pages of Trump’s 1995 NY, NJ, and CT income tax returns, showing a nearly _$1 billion_ net loss. That’s on a personal return. My favorite paragraph was this one: > [@](#): > > A flaw in the tax software program he used at the time prevented him from being able to print a nine-figure loss on Mr. Trump’s New York return, [Jack Mitnick, Trump’s retired former CPA] said. So, for example, the loss of “-915,729,293” on Line 18 of the return printed out as “5,729,293.” As a result, Mr. Mitnick recalled, he had to use his typewriter to manually add the “-91,” thus explaining why the first two digits appeared to be in a different font and were slightly misaligned from the following seven digits. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/2 "2016-10-02T02:01:11Z")
Wow- even his losses were so YUUUUGE that the standard forms couldn’t accommodate him. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/3 "2016-10-02T02:01:41Z")
I think the vast majority of Americans believe that he pays no taxes and that he’s hiding his returns because of that. This is really no surprise. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/4 "2016-10-02T02:08:18Z")
That would be quite a capital loss carry forward. Since those last until you die, perhaps he is still using it instead of paying taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/5 "2016-10-02T02:12:26Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > That would be quite a capital loss carry forward. Since those last until you die, perhaps he is still using it instead of paying taxes. I don’t think there’s a “perhaps” about it. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/6 "2016-10-02T02:15:25Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I don’t think there’s a “perhaps” about it. Imagine the loss that he could carry forward… for America…! :eek: :smack: ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/7 "2016-10-02T02:16:02Z")
Oops, should have read the article. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/8 "2016-10-02T02:24:58Z")
OK. Conspiracy theory hat. Trump camp leaks forged tax documents suggesting that he paid no taxes, waits for all the news outlets pick it up and then proves that they are forged by providing a single page of the real one which is different and blames the lame stream media for making up lies about his taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/9 "2016-10-02T02:29:29Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I think the vast majority of Americans believe that he pays no taxes and that he’s hiding his returns because of that. This is really no surprise. Among other things. He probably owes debt to foreign investors (possibly Chinese, Russian and middle eastern). He probably isn’t nearly as rich as he claims. True billionaires do not hock steaks and board games. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/10 "2016-10-02T02:35:28Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > Oops, should have read the article. Well, the article doesn’t prove he actually took the deduction, just that he could have (but we all know he did). It’s a winning motto: For the past 20 years I’ve paid less in taxes total than you did last year all because, as it turns out, I was a shitty businessman in 1995. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/11 "2016-10-02T03:13:15Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Among other things. He probably owes debt to foreign investors (possibly Chinese, Russian and middle eastern). He probably isn’t nearly as rich as he claims. True billionaires do not \*\*hock \*\*steaks and board games. My bold. I think you mean “hawk,” as in promote or sell. “As a verb, hawk means (1) to sell goods, especially noisily or aggressively on the street.” “Hock” would be borrowing money on them, e.g., taking them to a pawn shop. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/12 "2016-10-02T03:22:21Z")
He went nearly a billion dollars into the red during the big Clinton boom? What a YUGE loser! ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/13 "2016-10-02T03:32:07Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > OK. Conspiracy theory hat. Trump camp leaks forged tax documents suggesting that he paid no taxes, waits for all the news outlets pick it up and then proves that they are forged by providing a single page of the real one which is different and blames the lame stream media for making up lies about his taxes. The Trump campaign has issued [a response](https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/trump-campaign-statement1), complaining about the leak, accusing the media of pro-Clinton bias, and doubling down on the “That makes me smart” position. No suggestion that the figures are off by a penny. ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/14 "2016-10-02T04:02:16Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > The Trump campaign has issued [a response](https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/trump-campaign-statement1), complaining about the leak, accusing the media of pro-Clinton bias, and doubling down on the “That makes me smart” position. No suggestion that the figures are off by a penny. Also this from the article: > [@](#): > > On Wednesday, The Times presented the tax documents to Jack Mitnick, a lawyer and certified public accountant who handled Mr. Trump’s tax matters for more than 30 years, until 1996. Mr. Mitnick was listed as the preparer on the New Jersey tax form. > > Mr. Mitnick, 80, now semiretired and living in Florida, said that while he no longer had access to Mr. Trump’s original returns, the documents appeared to be authentic copies of portions of Mr. Trump’s 1995 tax returns. Mr. Mitnick said the signature on the tax preparer line of the New Jersey tax form was his, and he readily explained an obvious anomaly in the way especially large numbers appeared on the New York tax document. > > Continue reading the main story > A flaw in the tax software program he used at the time prevented him from being able to print a nine-figure loss on Mr. Trump’s New York return, he said. So, for example, the loss of “-915,729,293” on Line 18 of the return printed out as “5,729,293.” As a result, Mr. Mitnick recalled, he had to use his typewriter to manually add the “-91,” thus explaining why the first two digits appeared to be in a different font and were slightly misaligned from the following seven digits. > > “This is legit,” he said, stabbing a finger into the document. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/15 "2016-10-02T04:32:13Z")
Y’know, I cannot blame Trump on this one. He’s a crappy businessman and an amoral person, but he did not write the laws that allowed for this abuse and given the opportunity to legally massively benefit from such laws very would decline to. The laws that allowed (?still allow?) for this sort of shit, that allow and facilitate the 0.01% to get away paying little to nothing, accumulating wealth even \*as a result of \*running businesses into huge losses, while the rest of us pay our fair share, are to blame here. Now if his campaign had included identifying those laws as a problem and releasing his returns as a cogent illustration of what is allowed and should not be … t’would all be good. But given that his tax plan includes nothing of the sort? Not so good. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/16 "2016-10-02T04:51:07Z")
So, who released? 1. Marla 2. Ivana 3. Tiffany 4. Baron 5. Ex-CPA 6. Campaign staff member ? My heart is on Marla. My brain is on a staffer. Ugh… gonna go Marla. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/17 "2016-10-02T04:56:06Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > So, who released? > > 1. Marla > 2. Ivana > 3. Tiffany > 4. Baron > 5. Ex-CPA > 6. Campaign staff member > > ? Donald Trump apparently thinks this makes him look smart. Also, he’s nuts. So put him down as #7. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/18 "2016-10-02T04:59:55Z")
Hard to believe there isn’t at least **one** IRS employee who’s willing to [del]risk[/del] lose his or her job… ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/19 "2016-10-02T05:04:40Z")
I’m sure the loss was smart, very very Huuugely smart — Donald Trump hates losers but, AFAICT, any self-loathing must be subconscious. And he’s the biggest and best at everything. A $900 million realized loss? Bill Gates, J.D. Rockefeller, Baron Rothschild — none of them ever achieved that. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/20 "2016-10-02T05:06:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Mr. Trump knows the tax code far better than anyone who has ever run for President and he is the only one that knows how to fix it.” Sure he does. As I pointed before Trump will fix it all right, by also eliminating the inheritance tax and giving himself more tax cuts (items that are in his agenda already). That will be on top of not having to pay much of them for years. That is IMHO a Huuuuge conflict of interest and IMHO for him that scheme could be all that matters, I do think that he would find it easy to do that, be even impeached and he and the family will come ahead. What about making all Americans look like suckers? That he should be ashamed of being impeached? He will not mind at all. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444.md?page=2)