# NYTimes obtains partial 1995 Trump tax records **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 2, 2016, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444 "2016-10-02T01:56:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/201 "2016-10-03T16:56:30Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Well, I don’t know what you mean. The NYT is trying to use class envy against Trump to get people not to vote for him. The New York Times has callously been trying to inform people of current events since 1851 – can’t ANYONE stop them? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/202 "2016-10-03T17:11:56Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > This would also possibly explain why only the signature pages were revealed. Trump’s guy is doing the taxes, Maples doesn’t care about the details much, she just needs to sign, so the accountant just sends over the page she needs to sign. This is kind what happens in my house. I handle the bookkeeping and my wife trusts me to do it right, so I just tell her the bottom line and she signs off. No courier or anything involved, and she can always just get the full returns from our file cabinet if she wants to. But if we were just moving paper around in a pre-email world, I could see me saying, “Hey sweetie, I’m going to send you the page you need to sign.” > > Not that I’m entirely convinced it was released by Maples. But…hmmmmmm It could be someone else but Maples seems like the likeliest suspect. There’s a good roundup of the evidence [here](http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/10/is-marla-maples-the-trump-tax-return-leaker.html), including the “Sign Here” flag, some things she’s posted on Twitter recently, and some shady things she said in a recent profile of Tiffany. Also when he was thinking of running for President in 2000, she said this: > [@](#): > > If he is really serious about being president and runs in the general election next year, I will not be silent … I will feel it is my duty as an American citizen to tell the people what he is really like. And in response to that he attacked her in the press and fought with her about paying her the alimony she was owed, so it makes sense that if she was going to go after him again for her to do it anonymously. And sending it with a Trump Tower return address and sending it to a reporter who has already gotten under his skin would be things that she would know would bother him. She does seem protective of Tiffany, so maybe she hadn’t done anything earlier because she didn’t want to get Tiffany wrapped up in anything, but felt that things had gone too far. Or she waited until now so it would be a good October Surprise. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/203 "2016-10-03T17:19:37Z")
BREAKING NEWS: Trump Foundation issued cease-and-desist order from New York attorney general. They must stop operating immediately. > ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/204 "2016-10-03T17:31:17Z")
One question that’s sort of bugging me – Trump’s loss in 1995 could be carried over for 15-18 years, e.g. through 2013. But this is 2016, and apparently his financial disclosure, such as it was, indicates that he didn’t pay taxes this year. So, what happened in the past 3 years or so? Did he lose even more money somewhere? Was he laundering all his interest income through foundations? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/205 "2016-10-03T17:32:36Z")
Also not sure how one gets around the alternative minimum tax. Jesus, that thing kills me every year, and I have no idea how someone making hundreds of millions of dollars gets out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/206 "2016-10-03T18:03:37Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > It could be someone else but Maples seems like the likeliest suspect. There’s a good roundup of the evidence [here](http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/10/is-marla-maples-the-trump-tax-return-leaker.html), including the “Sign Here” flag, some things she’s posted on Twitter recently, and some shady things she said in a recent profile of Tiffany. Also when he was thinking of running for President in 2000, she said this: > > And in response to that he attacked her in the press and fought with her about paying her the alimony she was owed, so it makes sense that if she was going to go after him again for her to do it anonymously. And sending it with a Trump Tower return address and sending it to a reporter who has already gotten under his skin would be things that she would know would bother him. > > She does seem protective of Tiffany, so maybe she hadn’t done anything earlier because she didn’t want to get Tiffany wrapped up in anything, but felt that things had gone too far. Or she waited until now so it would be a good October Surprise. Interesting. If it is Maples, I’d think she might have lots more information to share. ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/207 "2016-10-03T18:06:35Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > One question that’s sort of bugging me – Trump’s loss in 1995 could be carried over for 15-18 years, e.g. through 2013. But this is 2016, and apparently his financial disclosure, such as it was, indicates that he didn’t pay taxes this year. So, what happened in the past 3 years or so? Did he lose even more money somewhere? Was he laundering all his interest income through foundations? May not have been a cash loss at all, and one of the State returns showed income: [http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-trumps-big-tax-loss-may-not-have-been-a-cash-loss-at-all-2016-10-03?link=MW\_popular](http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-trumps-big-tax-loss-may-not-have-been-a-cash-loss-at-all-2016-10-03?link=MW_popular) ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/208 "2016-10-03T18:11:06Z")
Of all the wives that he screwed (and screwed over) Marla was the one I always liked most. _golf-clap_ Well Played…! > [@JohnT](#): > > BREAKING NEWS: Trump Foundation issued cease-and-desist order from New York attorney general. They must stop operating immediately. > > [x.com](https://twitter.com/KatyTurNBC/status/782988522588213248) “Captain, I think that was an iceberg…” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/209 "2016-10-03T18:28:37Z")
Trump’s 1995 loss was about [2% of the entire net operating loss of everyone in America in 1995.](http://www.vox.com/2016/10/3/13147520/trump-tax-loss) ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/210 "2016-10-03T18:59:37Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > From a tweet: ‘If you’re applauding Trump’s gaming of the system, I never want to hear your thoughts about who’s taking advantage of welfare again. Ever.’ That’s different. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/211 "2016-10-03T19:00:40Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Trump’s 1995 loss was about [2% of the entire net operating loss of everyone in America in 1995.](http://www.vox.com/2016/10/3/13147520/trump-tax-loss) Further details: [according to Alan Cole of the Tax Foundation](https://twitter.com/AlanMCole/status/782932366255796225): > [@](#): > > All Net Operating Losses in 1995: $49.331 billion. NOL taken by @realDonaldTrump in 1995: $916 million. Trump was 1.9% of the US total. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/212 "2016-10-03T19:14:47Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > From a tweet: ‘If you’re applauding Trump’s gaming of the system, I never want to hear your thoughts about who’s taking advantage of welfare again. Ever.’ > [@octopus](#): > > That’s different. Yeah, by about a billion dollars. You don’t see too many welfare queens with solid gold living rooms in their Park Ave penthouses. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/213 "2016-10-03T19:19:30Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Yeah, by about a billion dollars. You don’t see too many welfare queens with solid gold living rooms in their Park Ave penthouses. And it’s doubtful any welfare queen has paid the total amount of taxes Trump has. There is more to total tax burden than federal income tax. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/214 "2016-10-03T19:20:41Z")
[Vox](http://www.vox.com/2016/10/3/13147364/trump-tax-genius) made what I thought was a valid point about NOL carryovers: > [@](#): > > while carrying losses forward and back is an entirely standard practice for a business owner, if you’re not a business owner, you can’t do this. > > Back during the financial crisis and the Great Recession, for example, tens of millions of Americans saw the value of their real estate assets fall. For many homeowners, it was simply a paper loss — your house was now worth less than what you paid for it. And for the lucky among us, it was a paper loss that went away as the real estate market improved in subsequent years. But millions of Americans ended up realizing actual monetary losses through foreclosures, short sales, or other hardships. > > These kinds of real estate losses do not generate tax deductions that can be carried forward and backward to offset taxes owed during happier times. It’s just your life, rather than your business, so tough luck. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/215 "2016-10-03T19:23:42Z")
One point about all this: unless Marla has admitted to Trump that she’s the source, he will be UTTERLY CONSUMED with either proving that Marla was the source, or, if he believes she’s not, with finding the source. Utterly, utterly consumed. He will be able to think of _nothing_ else. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/216 "2016-10-03T19:23:46Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > And it’s doubtful any welfare queen has paid the total amount of taxes Trump has. There is more to total tax burden than federal income tax. Yeah, we kept trying to explain that to Republicans back when Romney was making a big deal about the 47% who pay no income tax and complaining that more people needed ‘skin in the game.’ Glad it’s finally sinking in, but I’m sure that welfare queens pay a higher percentage of their income (including government assistance as income) in other taxes besides income tax than Trump does. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/217 "2016-10-03T19:24:57Z")
Oh, and I’m betting against Marla. Would she have known to just include the state tax returns, but not the federal? Someone had to really know what they were doing. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/218 "2016-10-03T19:26:49Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > That’s different. HA HA! Seriously? That’s all you’ve got? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/219 "2016-10-03T19:28:20Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > And it’s doubtful any welfare queen has paid the total amount of taxes Trump has. There is more to total tax burden than federal income tax. So when the arseholes from the alt-right and the Republican party go on and on about “those people” not paying taxes, I’m sure you chip right in to remind them that poor people pay sales tax, property tax (through their rents) and other taxes… right? You do that, right? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/220 "2016-10-03T19:34:36Z")
Meanwhile in Shoe On The Other Foot World … I like to imagine what life might be like if the Republicans discovered that Bill and Hillary pissed away a billion dollars ten years ago and hadn’t been paying any taxes since. I’m sure they’d be patted on the back for shrewdly taking advantage of US tax laws, right? Fah-huck no. They would out right demand she drop out of the race. So I see this whole kerfuffle as completely fair game on the ol’ Trumpster. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444.md?page=12)