# NYTimes obtains partial 1995 Trump tax records **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 2, 2016, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444 "2016-10-02T01:56:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/21 "2016-10-02T05:07:21Z")
If it was an IRS employee then why only a part of the return? My guess would be someone from an accounting or law firm he employed around that time. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/22 "2016-10-02T05:14:36Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > If it was an IRS employee then why only a part of the return? I’m not sure I follow you; if this suffices, and a number of people could’ve released it, and an IRS employee could’ve released more, then – why _wouldn’t_ an IRS employee do what gets the job done while covering his tracks? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/23 "2016-10-02T05:18:58Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Y’know, I cannot blame Trump on this one. He’s a crappy businessman and an amoral person, but he did not write the laws that allowed for this abuse and given the opportunity to legally massively benefit from such laws very would decline to. > > The laws that allowed (?still allow?) for this sort of shit, that allow and facilitate the 0.01% to get away paying little to nothing, accumulating wealth even \*as a result of \*running businesses into huge losses, while the rest of us pay our fair share, are to blame here. > > Now if his campaign had included identifying those laws as a problem and releasing his returns as a cogent illustration of what is allowed and should not be … t’would all be good. But given that his tax plan includes nothing of the sort? Not so good. It’s true that he didn’t break the law here (there are other places he’s broken the law but not here). But a big takeaway should be that he’s a bad enough businessman that he lost $916 million. But because he wrote off that loss, basically the next $916 million he earned was tax-free, while his creditors and investors were paid off pennies on the dollar. I’ve read some people who like him because “he’s a good businessman”, including at least one poster here, and I’d love to see what they think about this. Maybe I’m misunderstanding something, I’m certainly not a tax expert, so please correct me if there is something I’m missing, but I just can’t see any way this can be spun in a good way by the Trump camp, though I will enjoy seeing them try. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/24 "2016-10-02T05:30:41Z")
It proves the NY Times is an extension of the Clinton Campaign. (All right, I cheated. That’s what they are actually claimimg). ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/25 "2016-10-02T05:32:09Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > If it was an IRS employee then why only a part of the return? My guess would be someone from an accounting or law firm he employed around that time. The pages were from NY, NJ and CT taxes, not federal. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/26 "2016-10-02T05:32:09Z")
You know it’s an unfathomable world when I’m defending _Trump_, but this whole thing bothers me a lot. It’s almost certainly an illegally obtained document, and it’s from two decades ago. The ethical thing for the Times/Clinton campaign to do would have been to refuse to print it, and alert the authorities. I’m getting tired of criminals interfering in the campaign by releasing things that are supposed to be private, regardless of which side they’re doing it on behalf of. Trump can hang himself with the things he _chooses_ to say and with his public record. Can we stop with the bloody hacking (electronically or otherwise) already? ETA, and “…have not verified the authenticity of the documents…” So, basically we’re just printing rumors and innuendo now? Isn’t this exactly the sort of nonsense that got Dan Rather canned? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/27 "2016-10-02T05:32:47Z")
The IRS wouldn’t have Trump’s state income tax returns. And in any case they don’t save paper copies of forms from 21 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/28 "2016-10-02T05:35:04Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > You know it’s an unfathomable world when I’m defending _Trump_, but this whole thing bothers me a lot. It’s almost certainly an illegally obtained document, and it’s from two decades ago. The ethical thing for the Times/Clinton campaign to do would have been to refuse to print it, and alert the authorities. Meh. Newspapers print illegally-obtained documents all the time. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/29 "2016-10-02T05:37:18Z")
They were not sent by an IRS employee. These were parts of _state_ returns, which are not sent to the IRS. Furthermore they were returns for three different states, so they weren’t from an employee of the revenue department at any one state. I think it says something about the postmark being from the Trump Tower, so most likely a disgruntled Trump employee did it. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/30 "2016-10-02T05:37:57Z")
Somebody was thinking more of America than of themselves… unless it was Donald who released them. You know what this means? He didn’t pay taxes on the money earned from the “good business” practice of betting against US homeowners during the 2008-2010 recession. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/31 "2016-10-02T05:41:39Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > I think it says something about the postmark being from the Trump Tower, so most likely a disgruntled Trump employee did it. I’m about nine hundred million percent sure that whoever sent it put Trump Tower as a return address as a bit of humor. You can put any return address on an envelope that you want. The _postmark_ just indicates what post office picked it up; in this case the postmark was from Manhattan. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/32 "2016-10-02T05:46:57Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > But a big takeaway should be that he’s a bad enough businessman that he lost $916 million. It takes a special level of bad to lose that kind of money in an economy where a monkey throwing darts at a _Wall Street Journal_ would pick a winning portfolio. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/33 "2016-10-02T06:02:20Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I think you mean “hawk,” as in promote or sell. “As a verb, hawk means (1) to sell goods, especially noisily or aggressively on the street.” > > “Hock” would be borrowing money on them, e.g., taking them to a pawn shop. I’m not sure that Trump isn’t above pawning steaks and board games for some extra scratch. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/34 "2016-10-02T06:21:25Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > The _postmark_ just indicates what post office picked it up; in this case the postmark was from Manhattan. That narrows it to what, 3 or 4 million people? Still suspect a gruntledly-challenged Trump employee. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/35 "2016-10-02T06:22:37Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > That narrows it to what, 3 or 4 million people? It narrows it down to no one, really. Anybody could travel to Manhattan and drop a letter in a mailbox. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/36 "2016-10-02T08:15:02Z")
Balancing losses against future payments of income tax is standard procedure, it’s what makes the tax system work so well. I’m not seeing the big deal here, other than that Trump sucks as a businessman, which we knew already. As for the billion dollar loss that will have been audited up the kazoo by the IRS already so I’m sure there’s no question of malfeasance on Trump’s part. It’s pretty much a non-story although it’s a huge gift to Clinton for the spin that can be put on it. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/37 "2016-10-02T09:32:49Z")
I don’t think anyone’s accusing DT of malfeasance. Just being really shitty at managing his businesses. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/38 "2016-10-02T10:11:08Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > As you may recall, 1995 was about the nadir of Trump’s business empire, as he was vastly overextended on multiple hotel and casino deals. 1995 was when he publicly floated the Trump Hotel and Resort Company, the only public company he has been President of. It’s probably his lowest net worth, there is estimates that he may have been worth -$900 million at the time. This 2005 article claims that he had to twice go begging for money from his family to avoid complete ruin, getting loans of $10 and $20 million. [http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/23/business/yourmoney/whats-he-really-worth.html?\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/23/business/yourmoney/whats-he-really-worth.html?_r=0) Seems clear to me that this year was chosen specifically as it’s probably the largest loss he claimed in a single year. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/39 "2016-10-02T10:32:05Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > The pages were from NY, NJ and CT taxes, not federal. Seems DJT, Marla, and the accountant would have had legitimate access to those documents. I don’t think anyone in government would have had access to all three. I would speculate (with absolutely no proof) that DJT or Marla might have provided such documents to an attorney at some point in relation to any of various legal proceedings. So it seems that the leak must have come directly from DJT in some weird scheme, from Marla, or more likely (IMHO) from someone from the accounting or legal side without authorization to release the documents. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444/40 "2016-10-02T11:09:55Z")
Trump has now beat Clinton in being the first candidate this year to be hit by an October surprise :D. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nytimes-obtains-partial-1995-trump-tax-records/767444.md?page=3)