Bullshit. Anyone has a right to an opinion on anything in a free society. Those who would try to silence opinions on issues do so from dark dishonest motives. This is an issue of social construct; not science.
I think it’s because you should pretty much take what anyone says about themselves and their experiences at face value. The problem is if you extrapolate that one person’s experience to the whole group that they belong to. I don’t think I’ve seen anything from Jenner where she says she speaks for all women.
She’s not an expert on what a woman-by-birth thinks, feels, or knows, but she’s an expert on what she herself knows. If she has said that all women think ‘X’, then it should be pointed out to her that you can’t make generalizations like that.
Including paranoid schizophrenics or other mentallly ill people?
I have to call horseshit on that bit quoted from the NYT. Good freaking God, it’s hard to be more immersed in the trans community than me, and I’ve NEVER once heard anyone even as a joke call a vagina “front hole.” W.T.F.?
And speaking of language policing, we had a meltdown on this very message board a while back (the big misogyny flameout, remember?), one outcome of which was that we shouldn’t use the word “hysterical” in any thread on the subject of gender issues. IIRC, there were mod notes given over that.
I’m not giving a link (find it yourself if you want) because it will inevitably re-ignite that whole volcano.
Do you apply the same reasoning to furries or otherkin? If some moron claims he is a wolf or a dragon, are you seriously going to claim that his delusions trump reality and that he is not really a human being?
One would have to live as a wolf or a dragon for some length of time before being taken seriously.
Once the wolf or dragon re-assignment surgery is completed, then there can be no further doubt.
Don’t you mean, as the master put it a while back… h’or’sh’it?
Personally, I think that’s hystrc*l.
I hope you’re wrong. I look forward to the day when people get upset over others not properly calling it a front hole. I’ll be an early adopter. I was too slow on halting the use of retard/retarded. I probably use the wrong terms for disabled/handicap. I still have to stop and think a second on what is exactly meant by transgender woman. But I’m not going to be on the wrong side of history on front hole.
Where is George Carlin when you need him? :o
Transwomen - welcome to the club. Here in womanhood you get accused of not being a real woman if you don’t have a vagina. But that isn’t the only hurdle. You aren’t a real woman if you’ve never had kids. If your kids aren’t bio. If you didn’t breastfeed them. If you are pro-life. If you are pro choice. If you work in a male dominated profession. If you can’t walk in high heels. If you are overweight. If you are in high school and you aren’t a cheerleader and aren’t interested in dating someone on the football team.
Then there are the gender traitors…allow yourself to be penetrated by a man - you might be a woman, but you are definitely a gender traitor. Be a stay at home mom instead of pursuing an MBA and tackling the corporate patriarchy - gender traitor.
I guess it doesn’t come as any surprise to me that transwomen feel like they aren’t universally embraced by their cis sisters. Their cis sisters have been implying that each other aren’t “real women” for so long. The rules are shifting and contradictory.
And I’ll offer some advice. Those bitches that don’t accept you for being you, you aren’t going to change them. Whether you are a pro-life quiverful woman who sees her role as to be the helpmate to a man or a militant lesbian feminist or any variation thereof, someone will question it. You know what, that’s their right, and you have to let it go. When those of us who didn’t breastfeed our kids can be consistantly treated as real women, we might make some progress with women who happen to have an XY set.
(On the other hand, you don’t win points with women like me for presenting yourself as facelifted, botox’d, sex kittens on the cover of national magazines. Wasn’t fond of it when Marissa Mayer did it either though, and - to the best of my knowledge - she’s a ciswoman - it isn’t a slam on transgendered issues - I just don’t like to watch powerful woman being portrayed as sex kittens. Yahoo's Marissa Mayer: Hail to the Chief — Vogue | Vogue)
When I googled “front hole” I got years old references. So while I don’t know how much a push there is to use the phrase, the article didn’t just pull it out of their back hole.
Given the advantages that this gives to the baby, may I please ask if there is a legitimate reason not to breastfeed?
I haven’t read the article, but I have perused online discussions about it. It is sparking an interesting discussion, actually. I’ve learned how diverse transgender people are. It shouldn’t be surprising, but they are just as diverse as anyone else.
A lot of transwomen resent how *others * expect them to perpetuate stereotypes of feminimity. Apparently, in order to be taken seriously by medical practitioners and other so-called “allies”, transwoman often feel pressure to glam themselves up. Heels, skirts, makeup, the whole nine yards. Because otherwise, the degree of their gender dysmorphia is questioned and people will mistakenly assume they aren’t really serious about transitioning. In other words, the perpetuation of stereotypes is imposed externally. It’s the game you play to get hormones and surgery. If we lived in an another kind of society, one where women walked around with pineapples on their head, then you’d see transwomen walking around with pineapples on their head. It’s not their biology dictating that preference. But their desire to fit in.
So some “tomboy” transwomen or transwomen who like to dress casually just like many ciswomen, do not appreciate when a transwoman like Caitlyn is essentially praised for entrenching the stereotypes. It makes it that much harder for people to really understand that transgenderiism isn’t about clothing or make-up, but about identity and feelings. It’s about the brain. Not about how well you wear heels.
I have to say I’d never heard this opinion expressed before. I suppose I thought transwoman had a different take on what it means to be a woman than I do, which is possibly why transgenderism has always been something I don’t really get (though I support, politically-speaking). My eyes have been opened, even if the article itself isn’t that good (like I said, I haven’t even read it.)
So you can only be a real non-traitor woman if your male life partner passes you the turkey baster?
This is a whoosh IMO. She is being sarcastic.
IANAW, but I understand there are occasions when it is inconvenient, and there are also women for whom it’s physically difficult/impossible, e.g. a breast cancer survivor with a double mastectomy.
None of which really matters to the question of whether someone should be regarded as a real woman if they have never actually breastfed a baby.
Tons of reasons. Some mentioned above; another reason is the lack of a child.
Obviously if a woman physically can’t…and the post said never, not when its inconvenient which is perfectly reasonable,
Besides the stupid (doesnt have a child), or if there is a medical reason; what would a legitimite reason to not breast feed? I knew a woman who refused to breast feed because she didnt want to ruin her nipples. The advantages that breast milk and the actual act of breast feeding gives to babies are many.
If you wanna argue that its a womans body and she can do what she pleases…what would stop them from doing drugs or smoking? In the very small number of cases what are the rights of the child?
I think these breastfeeding questions belong in their own thread.