# O.K. then, what about man and gorrillas? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 30, 2000, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-k-then-what-about-man-and-gorrillas/31316 "2000-08-30T08:32:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![darkcool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@darkcool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/darkcool)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-k-then-what-about-man-and-gorrillas/31316/21 "2000-08-31T01:31:52Z")
I don’t know what it is about me - I’m starting to get a complex. Seems I’m the only guy who gets called everytime I misspell a word. Geez these boards are full of’ em (misspellings). But let me not proof one post and - Bam - someone’s on me. Of course I know how to spell gerhillah, I just was a little quick on the ‘return’ key. This post prob has some too but fuck it. I’ll be the whippin’ boy for bad spellers! ---
**Author:** ![chadg033](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@chadg033](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chadg033)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-k-then-what-about-man-and-gorrillas/31316/22 "2000-08-31T02:48:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blessedwolf \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by pldennison \* > > \*\ ***Dr. Necessiter** (_David Warner_): As you know, my research has advanced to a point where I can put [your mistress’] mind into the body of a gorilla. > > **Dr. Michael Hfuhruhurr** (_Steve Martin_): I couldn’t fuck a gorilla! \*\* > > Holy S\*\*\*! I thought I was the only one who remembered that flick! > > BTW: I’m very impressed. You spelled the name properly! \*\* Ok, sorry for being the odd man out, but what is this movie? ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-k-then-what-about-man-and-gorrillas/31316/23 "2000-08-31T02:55:22Z")
IMHO, and that of many Zoologists, there is no such species as the “bonobo”. It is simply a subspecies of the Pan Chimp, ie the “Pygmy chimp”. However, one can’t get a lot of excitement engendered if a SUB-species is endagered, so they upped the status, for purely political reasons. Based on that reasoning, there are at least 4 species of humans. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-k-then-what-about-man-and-gorrillas/31316/24 "2000-08-31T12:28:44Z")
What? That is just a crock: Bonobo do have fixed differences from other Chimps (although I grant easily that with recent studies on Pan’s inter-species variability one can make a cogent case for Bonobo as a sub-species, although I think it fails.) Nothing anywhere near this is found in humans. Nothing. No sub-species, nada. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-k-then-what-about-man-and-gorrillas/31316/25 "2000-08-31T13:02:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by chadg033 \* > > Ok, sorry for being the odd man out, but what is this movie? \*\* The Man with Two Brains. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-k-then-what-about-man-and-gorrillas/31316/26 "2000-08-31T21:01:26Z")
One big problem with human-chimp or human-gorilla hybrids is that they don’t have the same number of chromosomes. Humans have 46; chimps and gorillas have 46. Perhaps a chimp-gorilla hybrid would be easier. see [biology & medical science](http://www.sciencenet.org.uk/database/Biology/Original/b00107d.html) Some of those who believe in such things as the yeti and Sasquatch have speculated that they are human-ape hybrids. It was once speculated that an unusually human-acting chimp named Oliver was a human-chimp hybrid. Genetic testing comfirms he is in no part human. see [http://www.parascope.com/en/cryptozoo/missingLinks10.htm](http://www.parascope.com/en/cryptozoo/missingLinks10.htm) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-k-then-what-about-man-and-gorrillas/31316/27 "2000-08-31T22:25:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bibliophage \* > \*\*One big problem with human-chimp or human-gorilla hybrids is that they don’t have the same number of chromosomes. Humans have 46; chimps and gorillas have 46. > \*\* I’m going to go ahead and assume that was a typo, if it’s all right with you. out of curiosity, how many chromosomes do chimps and gorillas have? ---
**Author:** ![mipsman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mipsman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mipsman)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-k-then-what-about-man-and-gorrillas/31316/28 "2000-08-31T23:45:03Z")
Where is Jois at? You can’t believe that Homo sapiens sapiens could have successfully bred with archaic Homo sapiens and these folks are speculating on human-chimp hybrids. What is the latest on chimp-bonopos? Looks like there is a controversy about bonopos being their own species. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-k-then-what-about-man-and-gorrillas/31316/29 "2000-08-31T23:56:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by darkcool \* > anyone else heard this? Bart has! > [@](#): > > “God, schmod! I want my monkey-man!” ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-k-then-what-about-man-and-gorrillas/31316/30 "2000-09-01T00:01:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lemur866 \* > \*\*According to Jared Diamond, (in his book “The Third Chimpanzee”, humans are so close genetically to the two species of chimps that we might as well be in the same genus. That’s right, it should be _Homo sapiens_, _Homo troglodytes_, and _Homo paniscus_. Well, I wouldn’t go that far, but Chimps are definately hominids. > > It wouldn’t shock me if hybridization was sometimes possible. A chimp or bonobo would be a better candidate than a gorilla, of course. But note that a chimp would have a better chance hybridizing with a human that it would with a gorilla. > \*\* So why aren’t there any neanderthal/sapiens hybrids extant? Would all the offspring be sterile hybrids? ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-k-then-what-about-man-and-gorrillas/31316/31 "2000-09-01T03:28:07Z")
> [@](#): > > IMHO, and that of many Zoologists, there is no such species as the “bonobo”. It is simply a subspecies of the Pan Chimp, ie the “Pygmy chimp”. However, one can’t get a lot of excitement engendered if a SUB-species is endagered, so they upped the status, for purely political reasons. But there are also those who justifiably believe that _Pan paniscus_ (the pygmy chimp/bonobo) deserves the status of a full species for cladistic, not political reasons. In addition, _Pan troglodytes_ already has endangered status, and is protected under [CITES](http://www.wcmc.org.uk/CITES/eng/index.shtml), and listed as endangered by [USFWS](http://www.fws.gov/)… of course, they don’t occur naturally in the US, but they’re listed anyway. Depending on the level of resolution, cladograms show the pygmy chimps either as a separate lineage with a less than 1% difference in DNA or as a member of the common chimp lineage. Going by Mayr’s Biological Species Concept, though, I suppose they could be the same species, but I’ll reserve final judgement until after the phylogeneticists sort it out. > [@](#): > > Based on that reasoning, there are at least 4 species of humans. Really? Which human varieties have a genetic difference of 0.7% or more? I don’t remember my genetics well enough on this point. Daniel and I have discussed species/subspecies classification of humans [before](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=22903), but since we’re using slightly different definitions of species and subspecies, we respectfully disagreed, and I expect the same would happen if we did it again. > [@](#): > > _originally posted by blessedwolf_ > out of curiosity, how many chromosomes do chimps and gorillas have? Gorillas have 48 according to the site bibliophage posted, [chimpanzees have 48 as well](http://www.amnh.org/enews/headl/e1_h6.html). This may not be such a great barrier to reproduction, though, IIRC donkeys and horses have slightly different numbers of chromosomes too (off by one, I think). > [@](#): > > _originally posted by astro_ > So why aren’t there any neanderthal/sapiens hybrids extant? Last I heard, anthropologists were in dispute about whether we bred with neanderthals, so it may be that there are/were neanderthal/sapiens hybrids… perhaps we are them. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-k-then-what-about-man-and-gorrillas/31316/32 "2000-09-01T16:05:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blessedwolf \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by bibliophage \* > > \*\*One big problem with human-chimp or human-gorilla hybrids is that they don’t have the same number of chromosomes. Humans have 46; chimps and gorillas have 46. > > \*\* > > I’m going to go ahead and assume that was a typo, if it’s all right with you. > > out of curiosity, how many chromosomes do chimps and gorillas have? \*\* Yes, it was a typo. As **wevets** just pointed out, chimps and gorillas have 48. Humans have 46. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-k-then-what-about-man-and-gorrillas/31316/33 "2000-09-01T16:18:22Z")
I wonder if there are any chimp-bonobo hybrids out there. IIRC, it was common practice to keep _Pan troglodytes_ and _P. paniscus_ in the same enclosures at zoos until relatively recently. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-k-then-what-about-man-and-gorrillas/31316/34 "2000-09-01T16:19:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blessedwolf \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by pldennison \* > > \*\ ***Dr. Necessiter** (_David Warner_): As you know, my research has advanced to a point where I can put [your mistress’] mind into the body of a gorilla. > > **Dr. Michael Hfuhruhurr** (_Steve Martin_): I couldn’t fuck a gorilla! \*\* > > Holy S\*\*\*! I thought I was the only one who remembered that flick! > > BTW: I’m very impressed. You spelled the name properly! \*\* Let us not forget Steve Martin’s girlfriend ( played by Katherine Turner??)- Miss Uhmulmhuhay !!! ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-k-then-what-about-man-and-gorrillas/31316/35 "2000-09-01T16:31:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by darkcool \* > \*\*I don’t know what it is about me - I’m starting to get a complex. Seems I’m the only guy who gets called everytime I misspell a word. Geez these boards are full of’ em (misspellings). But let me not proof one post and - Bam - someone’s on me. Of course I know how to spell gerhillah, I just was a little quick on the ‘return’ key. > This post prob has some too but fuck it. I’ll be the whippin’ boy for bad spellers! \*\* Don’t feel singled out; yesterday, I jumped onto **Wild Bill** on another thread for writing so poorly (misspellings, poor grammar, almost NO punctuation), I could barely comprehend what he was trying to say. It’s just that the combination of an outrageous suggestion (man breeding with gorilla) and a consistent misspelling of a relatively simple word pushed my buttons. **[rant]** Y’know, it’s interesting: Abraham Lincoln claimed his formal schooling added up to no more than one year. Yet he spoke and wrote better than most people today who have had twelve years of grade school (public or private or both) and four years of college. Why is that? Was Abe a genius who managed to teach himself or are our schools really that bad or do people today (and I don’t mean you) just don’t really care if they learn to read and write well? Is it the stigma our culture places on learning “too much”? I honestly have no idea.**[/rant]** ---
**Author:** ![DougC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@DougC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DougC)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-k-then-what-about-man-and-gorrillas/31316/36 "2000-09-01T16:51:21Z")
- - - On a sidenote, in a not-particularly respectful magazine that speculated that the reason that Diane Fossey was murdered was quite possibly that she was caught by the natives having sex with an ape, which is a Class-I taboo among the locals. The native people who lived near the gorillas she was protecting were very helpful towards her for a long time, and then (up until a few days before her death) suddenly weren’t. The article claimed that she had no human male companion and spoke very affectionately about her charges, and that she openly claimed that she was accepted as one of them (although nobody seems to have asked if she was screwing any of them). - I might have written it off as a crock right away, but this thread reminded me: if anybody knows if it’s possible to mate humans and gorillas, it’s probably the people who have lived around them for eons. Among “simple” cultures, taboos exist for usually one of two reasons: either it’s a priviledge reserved for royalty, or it leads directly to something dangerous. I can’t recall any claims that African tribal leaders were allowed to screw gorillas. - MC [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-k-then-what-about-man-and-gorrillas/31316.md?page=1)