# O noes. Obama wants to bankrupt the coal industry!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 3, 2008, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-noes-obama-wants-to-bankrupt-the-coal-industry/470796 "2008-11-03T01:18:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-noes-obama-wants-to-bankrupt-the-coal-industry/470796/41 "2008-11-03T15:46:27Z")
They both lie, like all politicians, therefore we cannot be mad when they lie? Is that about it? I am somehow unpersuaded. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-noes-obama-wants-to-bankrupt-the-coal-industry/470796/42 "2008-11-03T16:19:01Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Obama did not say what the headlines and Palin are accusing him of saying. He didn’t say anything about the coal mining industry at all. Are you retarded? 90% of the coal mined in the US goes for electrical prodution. Do you really think the coal mining industry won’t be affected if 90% of the market goes away? [http://www.eia.doe.gov/basics/coal\_basics.html](http://www.eia.doe.gov/basics/coal_basics.html) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-noes-obama-wants-to-bankrupt-the-coal-industry/470796/43 "2008-11-03T16:24:19Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Agreed. Which is why McCain is the better choice–he will expand the government less than will Obama. In other words, if they are both doing their own agendas instead of truly acting in the best interests of the country, then McCain is the better choice because he will be doing less. McCain will run the country into a flaming wreak, just like Bush did. Atleast that’s what I’ve been able to gather from all his flip flopping. It’s hard to tell what issues he really stands behind. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-noes-obama-wants-to-bankrupt-the-coal-industry/470796/44 "2008-11-03T16:38:28Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Are you retarded? 90% of the coal mined in the US goes for electrical prodution. Do you really think the coal mining industry won’t be affected if 90% of the market goes away? > > [http://www.eia.doe.gov/basics/coal\_basics.html](http://www.eia.doe.gov/basics/coal_basics.html) The market would not go away. Obama was talking about transitioning to clean coal technology, not transitioning away from coal. Obama’s policy would actually be good for the mining industry, which is why the industry and the coal miners’ unions have endorsed him. Incidentally, McCain supports the exact same cap and trade policy, but he actually does want to phase out coal completely. This is a phony issue, and a stupid one for McCain to pursue, since Obama wants to preserve the coal industry and McCain wants to eradicate it. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-noes-obama-wants-to-bankrupt-the-coal-industry/470796/45 "2008-11-03T16:50:33Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The market would not go away. Obama was talking about transitioning to clean coal technology, not transitioning away from coal. Funny, he didn’t actually _say_ anything about clean coal, though. That’s just you trying to spin. > [@](#): > > Obama’s policy would actually be good for the mining industry, which is why the industry and the coal miners’ unions have endorsed him. That’s cause they are unions. Unions could really give a rip about anything except their own benefits. See Auto Industry. > [@](#): > > but he actually does want to phase out coal completely. . McCain has been nothing but consistant for calling for more clean coal. This is just you playing word games again, only this time dropping out the ‘clean’ adjective that you so graciously inserted into Obama’s statement. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-noes-obama-wants-to-bankrupt-the-coal-industry/470796/46 "2008-11-03T17:16:01Z")
Fuck the coal industry. It’s damn near criminal that a lot of us still get our power from steam generated by coal. Coal should be taken out back and shot for its history of corruption and inhuman treatment of employees, and for the practice of mountain top removal mining, if for no other reason. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-noes-obama-wants-to-bankrupt-the-coal-industry/470796/47 "2008-11-03T17:16:16Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > He has repeatedly said he is fine with it, if you want to split hairs about whether that means he ‘wants’ it ok, but that’s pretty weak. > > Ten minutes ago my brother just asked me if I wanted something from Burger King, I said a number 2 is fine, I really hope he comes back with some food. Nope. Not only didn’t he say it, he didn’t hold the opinion or communicate it. That’s simply fact. [The first hit](http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/14/mccain.king/) from a search shows that to be the case. He didn’t “want” to be there for a 100 years, he’d be willing to be there for a hundred years, given the alternative: > [@](#): > > Last month, at a town hall meeting in New Hampshire, a crowd member asked McCain about a Bush statement that troops could stay in Iraq for 50 years. > > “Maybe 100,” McCain replied. “As long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed, it’s fine with me and I hope it would be fine with you if we maintain a presence in a very volatile part of the world where al Qaeda is training, recruiting, equipping and motivating people every single day.” > [@](#): > > McCain told King he thinks opponents are taking the quote out of context. He said any long-term troop presence in Iraq would depend on agreement from the Iraqi government. > > “If they don’t want to and we don’t feel a need to do so, obviously, the whole thing is keyed to Americans being able to withdraw and come home with honor, not in defeat,” he said. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-noes-obama-wants-to-bankrupt-the-coal-industry/470796/48 "2008-11-03T17:26:20Z")
This made its way into McCain’s stump speech today. He is telling voters in Pennsylvania that Obama wants to bankrupt the coal industry, and only McCain will protect coal miners jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-noes-obama-wants-to-bankrupt-the-coal-industry/470796/49 "2008-11-03T17:39:33Z")
It’s weird that McCain is trying that tack since he not only supports the exact same policy, but wants to take it even further and phase out coal altogether. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-noes-obama-wants-to-bankrupt-the-coal-industry/470796/50 "2008-11-03T18:34:57Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > They both lie, like all politicians, therefore we cannot be mad when they lie? Is that about it? I am somehow unpersuaded. You can get mad at whatever you want, but getting worked up over politicians lying is like getting angry about the sun rising. Getting outraged over lies about campaign promises is like getting outraged over Ptolemaic geocentrism: it’s probably going to turn out to be false anyway, so you’re getting worked up over a double-dose of nothing. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-noes-obama-wants-to-bankrupt-the-coal-industry/470796/51 "2008-11-03T18:42:50Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Agreed. Which is why McCain is the better choice–he will expand the government less than will Obama. In other words, if they are both doing their own agendas instead of truly acting in the best interests of the country, then McCain is the better choice because he will be doing less. Nuts to that, my friend. The republicans claiming fiscal responsibility after the last 8 years is akin to Jeffrey Dahmer saying he’s hungry for a little Asian. They’re both full of shit, it’s only a matter of degrees. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-noes-obama-wants-to-bankrupt-the-coal-industry/470796/52 "2008-11-03T18:44:09Z")
I’d like to fight this hijack by saying, at least in West-Central PA, the coal industry is ALREADY pining for the fjords. It is an EX-coal-industry. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-noes-obama-wants-to-bankrupt-the-coal-industry/470796/53 "2008-11-03T18:55:32Z")
[QUOTE=Ogre] Fuck the coal industry. It’s damn near criminal that a lot of us still get our power from steam generated by coal. Coal should be taken out back and shot for its history of corruption and inhuman treatment of employees, and for the practice of mountain top removal mining, if for no other reason. [/QUOTE] You are kidding, right? As to the OP…meh. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-noes-obama-wants-to-bankrupt-the-coal-industry/470796/54 "2008-11-03T19:03:57Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > Nuts to that, my friend. > > The republicans claiming fiscal responsibility after the last 8 years is akin to Jeffrey Dahmer saying he’s hungry for a little Asian. > > They’re both full of shit, it’s only a matter of degrees. Why, did Dahmer only eat white chicks or something? ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-noes-obama-wants-to-bankrupt-the-coal-industry/470796/55 "2008-11-03T19:09:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Why, did Dahmer only eat white chicks or something? I thought he had a few Asian vics, maybe I’m remembering wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-noes-obama-wants-to-bankrupt-the-coal-industry/470796/56 "2008-11-03T19:20:34Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > You are kidding, right? > As to the OP…meh. > > -XT Well, maybe a little. But mountain-top removal is right up there with the worst continuing environmental disasters in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-noes-obama-wants-to-bankrupt-the-coal-industry/470796/57 "2008-11-03T21:20:18Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > You can get mad at whatever you want, but getting worked up over politicians lying is like getting angry about the sun rising. > > Getting outraged over lies about campaign promises is like getting outraged over Ptolemaic geocentrism: it’s probably going to turn out to be false anyway, so you’re getting worked up over a double-dose of nothing. The truth is, we can have a politics that is less awful. It is a change that will happen in degrees. Part of why I like Obama is that I think he’s run a marginally cleaner campaign than Kerry, and certainly than McCain or Bush. But we don’t achieve that by cynically rejecting all politicians as liars. Or by laughing at those who would try to call politicians on their lies. We get there by calling both sides out–especially our own–when they lie or overstretch. I can picture you, 40 years ago, saying that getting angry at exploiting race for political gain is like getting angry about the sun rising. So we should just let it go. Have we eliminated racism in politics? Of course not. Has it gotten better? Of course. Things change. And change happens, in part, by discussion, by discourse. That’s democracy. A little less cynicism, and a little more hope, would go a long way. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-noes-obama-wants-to-bankrupt-the-coal-industry/470796/58 "2008-11-03T22:55:03Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I’ll be laughing my ass off in 20 or 30 years when the American left is pushing policies to radically increase CO2 emissions to stave off the next ice age. [Niven-Pournelle fan, are we?](http://www.sfreviews.com/docs/Larry%20Niven,%20Jerry%20Pournelle%20and%20Michael%20Flynn_1991_Fallen%20Angels.htm) BTW, this whole Obama-will-bankrupt-the-coal-industry meme [is based on a hoax.](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=14&entry_id=32228&type=politics) ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-noes-obama-wants-to-bankrupt-the-coal-industry/470796/59 "2008-11-03T23:10:49Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Niven-Pournelle fan, are we?](http://www.sfreviews.com/docs/Larry%20Niven,%20Jerry%20Pournelle%20and%20Michael%20Flynn_1991_Fallen%20Angels.htm) > > BTW, this whole Obama-will-bankrupt-the-coal-industry meme [is based on a hoax.](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=14&entry_id=32228&type=politics) So it’s a “hoax” because it claims that the it’s based on “hidden tapes”, and they were not hidden? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-noes-obama-wants-to-bankrupt-the-coal-industry/470796/60 "2008-11-03T23:37:07Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > So it’s a “hoax” because it claims that the it’s based on “hidden tapes”, and they were not hidden? :rolleyes: More breaking news! \*\*magellan01 \*\*still has his objectivity radar broken! (Posted on GD also: ) > **[Client Challenge](https://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=%2Fc%2Fa%2F2008%2F11%2F03%2FMNTL13SU6S.DTL)** > [@](#): > > “So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can. It’s just that it will bankrupt them, because they’re going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that’s being emitted,” he said. In the same interview, the senator said that “if technology allows us to use coal in a clean way, we should pursue it.” So he is saying that if they do manage to limit greenhouse emissions then that will be fine. To me it is clear that that position is not different from McCain, as McCain mentioned in his site: “we need to commit significant federal resources to the science, research and development that advance this critical technology. Once commercialized, the U.S. can then export these technologies to countries like China that are committed to using their coal - creating new American jobs and allowing the U.S. to play a greater role in the international green economy.” In other words, as he is supporting also a Cap-And-Trade System this means Coal has a problem if no new technologies appear under both Obama and McCain. It seems to me then that that was the reason the newspaper did not focus on those remarks, but it is insulting to ones intelligence to say this was hidden or it was not known. [http://www.washingtonceo.com/home/blogs/post/article/313/ceos-surpri.html](http://www.washingtonceo.com/home/blogs/post/article/313/ceos-surpri.html) > [@](#): > > Cap-and-trade will happen because of a group you might not know about: U.S. Climate Action Partnership (US-CAP), a partnership of 27 major corporations and six leading environmental organizations that is pushing the global-warming solutions agenda forward. The group includes several Fortune 500 companies, including General Electric. > > Yes, the very businesses that would be regulated by a cap-and-trade system are pushing it forward because, Belcher said, they figure “if we don’t push it, someone else will.” > > Put another way, Belcher said, these companies are saying, “‘Climate change is here whether I believe in it or not, and I just want to know what the rules are.’” (Or they want to have a hand in writing those rules). > > Perhaps surprisingly, top businesses are at the forefront of adopting a cap-and-trade system, or at least making sure it’s a system they can live with (no word on how such a system would affect smaller businesses). Washington state is no exception, and businesses here should take note that the state is part of the Western Regional Climate Initiative (WRCI), a collaboration among the governors of Washington, Oregon, California, New Mexico and Arizona. The WRCI’s focus includes developing a regional cap-and-trade system. > > So, if the feds don’t move first, Washington state, along with these other states, will. In any case, whoever wins the White House - Barack Obama or John McCain - will pursue some form of cap-and-trade legislation. Both candidates also essentially support electrifying the transportation grid to wean the country off foreign oil, according to Brian Wynne, president of the Electric Drive Transportation Alliance. “No matter how the election turns out we will have an ally in the White House,” he said Friday. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-noes-obama-wants-to-bankrupt-the-coal-industry/470796.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-noes-obama-wants-to-bankrupt-the-coal-industry/470796.md?page=4)