# O.S.U. wants to trademark the word "the" **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 14, 2019, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-s-u-wants-to-trademark-the-word-the/838662 "2019-08-14T16:07:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-s-u-wants-to-trademark-the-word-the/838662/1 "2019-08-14T16:07:50Z")
> **[Ohio State seeks to trademark the word 'The'](https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/27384520/ohio-state-seeks-trademark-word-the)** > > Ohio State has previously trademarked the names and likenesses of football coaches Woody Hayes and Urban Meyer as well as phrases like Script Ohio and The Shoe. [del]The[/del] nerve! I’m going to write a nasty letter to [del]the[/del] jerk who thought up [del]the[/del] idea. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-s-u-wants-to-trademark-the-word-the/838662/2 "2019-08-14T16:21:32Z")
So, do they want to limit the ability of say The Rolling Stones from selling shirts that say ‘The Rolling Stones’, but a shirt that says ‘Rolling Stones’ would be okay? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-s-u-wants-to-trademark-the-word-the/838662/3 "2019-08-14T16:25:24Z")
> [@](#): > > “Like other institutions, Ohio State works to vigorously protect the university’s brand and trademarks,” Davey told The Columbus Dispatch in a statement. Ha! He forgot to say “The.” ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-s-u-wants-to-trademark-the-word-the/838662/4 "2019-08-14T16:43:05Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > So, do they want to limit the ability of say The Rolling Stones from selling shirts that say ‘The Rolling Stones’, but a shirt that says ‘Rolling Stones’ would be okay? I’m assuming that it’s only trademarking “the” word in a particular context, so “The Rolling Stones” is acceptable. As the article said, “Common words and phrases can be trademarked if the seeker can prove a distinctive usage outside the traditional meaning.” _The_ Rolling Stones don’t have a “distinctive usage outside the traditional meaning.” They’re using it normally. What I’m curious about is what this “distinctive usage” is. If it’s just putting “the” in front of a university name, that won’t work. I’m sure many universities do; in my home state UW goes by “The University of Washington”. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-s-u-wants-to-trademark-the-word-the/838662/5 "2019-08-14T16:54:11Z")
[del]The[/del] Hell you say! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-s-u-wants-to-trademark-the-word-the/838662/6 "2019-08-14T17:16:17Z")
You’d never see this kind of thing happening in Russia. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-s-u-wants-to-trademark-the-word-the/838662/7 "2019-08-14T17:27:46Z")
Never mind the trademark application; how stupid would you have to be to actually buy [shit like this](http://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn88571984&docId=SPE20190812085142#docIndex=1&page=1)? [Note, you can see other samples by using the links on the page.] ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-s-u-wants-to-trademark-the-word-the/838662/8 "2019-08-14T17:53:43Z")
Little Nemo: > [@](#): > > You’d never see this kind of thing happening in Russia. Of course you wouldn’t, because in Russia, “the” trademarks YOU! ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-s-u-wants-to-trademark-the-word-the/838662/9 "2019-08-14T17:55:50Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > So, do they want to limit the ability of say The Rolling Stones from selling shirts that say ‘The Rolling Stones’, but a shirt that says ‘Rolling Stones’ would be okay? No, they want to limit the ability of others to sell shirts that contain only the word “THE” and no other text ([like this one](https://shop.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/style/NCAA-Mens-Fan-Favorite-Dual-Blend-T-Shirt/21181499)). Stupid idea, but not _quite_ as stupid as ESPN makes it sound. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-s-u-wants-to-trademark-the-word-the/838662/10 "2019-08-14T18:29:34Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > No, they want to limit the ability of others to sell shirts that contain only the word “THE” and no other text ([like this one](https://shop.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/style/NCAA-Mens-Fan-Favorite-Dual-Blend-T-Shirt/21181499)). Stupid idea, but not _quite_ as stupid as ESPN makes it sound. Yeah that’s pretty stupid. ETA: Also they don’t have a chance in hell. I see a few organizations using “THE” as an acronym: > **[THE - Definition by AcronymFinder](https://www.acronymfinder.com/THE.html)** > > 15 definitions of THE. Meaning of THE. What does THE stand for? THE abbreviation. Define THE at AcronymFinder.com If they try to claim nobody else uses “THE” alone as a slogan or name, they are mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-s-u-wants-to-trademark-the-word-the/838662/11 "2019-08-14T18:35:47Z")
Note that the ESPN article, as usual, reflects a misunderstanding of what “trademark” means. They are seeking to register a trademark. That means that they have to prove that they already have trademark rights. And the bit about “one of the most common words in the English language” is a red herring. It doesn’t matter how common a word is. Any word can become a trademark when it’s not being used for its ordinary meaning. “Apple” is a common, ordinary word. Yet it’s a trademark. So is “Delta” and “United” and “American” and “Continental.” There was (is?) a rock back called “the The.” So why not an apparel trademark for “The”? The question of how successful or popular such a brand is or might be is a different question from whether it can be a trademark in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-s-u-wants-to-trademark-the-word-the/838662/12 "2019-08-14T18:54:46Z")
So no other university would be allowed to call itself “The \_ University”? Actually that wouldn’t be such a bad thing… ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-s-u-wants-to-trademark-the-word-the/838662/13 "2019-08-14T19:02:55Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > So no other university would be allowed to call itself “The \_ University”? No. Why would you think so? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-s-u-wants-to-trademark-the-word-the/838662/14 "2019-08-14T20:32:09Z")
Let me guess: Russian lacks articles entirely? I wonder how the school in Columbus officially translates their name into Latin (because you’ve got to have Latin on diplomas and such). ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-s-u-wants-to-trademark-the-word-the/838662/15 "2019-08-14T20:33:36Z")
I don’t understand trademark law. Boise State plays on blue turf, so if any other stadium wants to put in turf of any color but green they have to pay BSU. Other schools have been using The \_\_ University forever. How do you trademark something that wasn’t yours exclusively in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-s-u-wants-to-trademark-the-word-the/838662/16 "2019-08-14T20:42:01Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I don’t understand trademark law. Boise State plays on blue turf, so if any other stadium wants to put in turf of any color but green they have to pay BSU. Other schools have been using The \_\_ University forever. How do you trademark something that wasn’t yours exclusively in the first place? Ohio State was the first University to be obnoxious about it. They should trademark their douchy attitude. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-s-u-wants-to-trademark-the-word-the/838662/17 "2019-08-14T21:11:45Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Other schools have been using The \_\_ University forever. How do you trademark something that wasn’t yours exclusively in the first place? Because O.S.U. isn’t seeking to claim a trademark on “the” used as the normal word “the.” They can’t. You can’t have a trademark on a word for its normal usage. Ask yourself this … How can one single company have exclusive rights in the word “apple” when it’s a normal English word that has been used for centuries by everyone? The answer is that Apple Inc. isn’t claiming rights in the word “apple” as it is used in its dictionary meaning. It is claiming rights only to the extent that “Apple” is distinctive as the indicator of a source of goods or services. So, why not “The”? There’s no difference between “The” being a trademark and “Apple” being a trademark. In principal there’s no reason why “The” can’t operate as a trademark. However, there is a glitch here, because what O.S.U. has submitted to the Patent and Trademark Office as a specimen of its trademark use is a T-shirt with the word “The” printed in big letters on the front. This is a very weak specimen for trademark use in the category “Clothing, namely, t-shirts, baseball caps and hats.” The reason is that what it looks like is an “ornamental use,” rather than a trademark use (the term of art is “use in commerce”). The usual guideline is “if it’s on the front of the T-shirt it’s an ornamental use; if it’s on the tag, it’s a trademark use.” See, the trademark is what indicates to you who produced an item. It’s not somethign that has decorative value. This doesn’t mean that O.S.U. has no chance of proving its use in commerce of “The,” but they might have an uphill battle. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-s-u-wants-to-trademark-the-word-the/838662/18 "2019-08-14T21:23:42Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Because O.S.U. isn’t seeking to claim a trademark on “the” used as the normal word “the.” They can’t. You can’t have a trademark on a word for its normal usage. > > Ask yourself this … How can one single company have exclusive rights in the word “apple” when it’s a normal English word that has been used for centuries by everyone? > > The answer is that Apple Inc. isn’t claiming rights in the word “apple” as it is used in its dictionary meaning. It is claiming rights only to the extent that “Apple” is distinctive as the indicator of a source of goods or services. > > So, why not “The”? There’s no difference between “The” being a trademark and “Apple” being a trademark. > > In principal there’s no reason why “The” can’t operate as a trademark. IANAL, but it seems like [these guys](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_The) might have a prior claim to the trademark. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-s-u-wants-to-trademark-the-word-the/838662/19 "2019-08-14T21:29:15Z")
In an attempt to be thorough and clarify what’s going on here. Ohio State is _not_ seeking to “trademark” the word “The.” Ohio State is seeking to _register_ its trademark rights in the word “The” with the Patent and Trademark Office. Yes, I know that “trying to trademark” or “wanting to trademark” or whatever is a common way of expressing this idea in the news media and otherwise. But I encourage all of you to fix this in your own minds, so you can understand what’s really going on. Trademark rights in federal and state law in the United States are not granted by the government by issuance of paper. In this sense, it’s like copyrights. Trademark and copyright protections thus stand in contrast to patent protections in U.S. law. This is what I mean– What creates a patent right? It’s when the federal government gives you a piece of paper (a patent) that says you have patent rights. That’s why don’t object to the use of “patent” as a verb. Because the process is clear. If you want a patent right, you patent it by seeking a patent from the government, and the government might give you a patent. It works find. But that’s not how it works in copyright and trademark law. You don’t get a trademark by asking the government for a trademark and then the government decides to give you a trademark. No. You get a trademark by yourself, without government action when you … (1) Use in commerce (2) a distinctive (3) indicator of the source (4) of goods or services that (5) doesn’t create a likelihood of confusion with someone else’s trademark. If you have those five things, you have a trademark and you can send nasty letters to people you think are infringing your trademark. You can sue, in either federal court or state court, if you think someone is violating your trademark rights. This is what the verb “trademark” should mean because this is the point that you have rights. At no point do you have to go to the government to get a piece of paper saying you have a trademark to do these things. However, both state and federal governments have an optional service called “registration.” In that process, you are going to the government and saying “I already have this trademark and I want a piece of paper from you that recognizes it.” It’s optional. But it has certain advantages. So, that’s the stage Ohio State is at now. It wants a registration certificate from the Patent and Trademark Office. In order to get it, it’s going to have to demonstrate that it has all those things that define a trademark. This is the problem with the verb “trademark.” It makes people think that the source of the rights and the government’s giving you a piece of paper constitute a single act of “trademarking.” Nope. That’s how patents work, but that’s not how trademarks work. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-s-u-wants-to-trademark-the-word-the/838662/20 "2019-08-14T21:32:27Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > IANAL, but it seems like [these guys](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_The) might have a prior claim to the trademark. You’ll note that I mentioned them already above. Two different entities can have trademark rights in the same word. Trademark rights are bound by geography and scope of goods and services. Does “the The” the rock band use “The” as a brand name for “Clothing, namely, t-shirts, baseball caps and hats.” I would guess that they don’t. And in any case “the The” isn’t the same thing as “The.” Mayyybe they might be confusingly similar, but mayyybe not. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/o-s-u-wants-to-trademark-the-word-the/838662.md?page=2)