# Oathkeepers.org for US military/police/etc **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 30, 2009, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oathkeepers-org-for-us-military-police-etc/515707 "2009-10-30T09:00:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oathkeepers-org-for-us-military-police-etc/515707/41 "2009-10-30T22:32:12Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > I said it in the other thread a week or so ago about Pat Buchanan and I’ll say it again: > These people are dumber than shit. The day the “Oathkeepers” have anything of value to contribute to the national political discourse, I’ll go over to Pat Buchanan’s house and personally fellate him while humming Dixie. Thank you for saving the Michelle Malkin/cunnilingus option for me. Hey, at least she’s not Ann Coulter. ---
**Author:** ![AdmiralCrunch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6f9a4e/32.png) [@AdmiralCrunch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AdmiralCrunch)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oathkeepers-org-for-us-military-police-etc/515707/42 "2009-10-30T22:50:21Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Police went around confiscating firearms during Hurricane Katrina (the time when people needed them most) in one of America’s most egregious violations of the 2nd Amendment - this actually happened. It was real. > . Really? Have the victims filed suit and have the police been prosecuted? Has, you know, a judge declared that the 2nd Amendment was violated, or is this just your opinion? That’s the real problem with all these oath-taking idiots. You can claim all day and night that the government doesn’t have a right to income taxes, but they’re still gonna throw your ass in jail if you don’t pay. There’s already a system for addressing unconstitutional orders: The Motherfucking Constitution. If you can’t get one of the three branches on your side: you’re breaking the law. Just because you’re convicted of a crime you didn’t commit doesn’t mean you can start stabbing guards and ripping tags off of mattresses with impunity. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oathkeepers-org-for-us-military-police-etc/515707/43 "2009-10-30T22:50:34Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Haven’t there been analogous groups in the Israeli military, that refused to take part in Israel’s military action in Gaza? Which groups? The left wing groups who are opposed to actions taken against Palestinians, or the right-wing groups who are opposed to actions taken against Jews? The latter have a greater presence. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oathkeepers-org-for-us-military-police-etc/515707/44 "2009-10-30T22:51:26Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > …If these assclowns cared half as much about the country as the claim to, they would have taken to the street with pitchforks years ago. If oath keepers used pitchforks the other police and military would just overpower them with guns/teargas/etc… being an oathkeeper means that if in the future other people were using pitchforks, they mightn’t necessarily arrest them all and send them away… I’m assuming you think a revolution is a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oathkeepers-org-for-us-military-police-etc/515707/45 "2009-10-30T22:56:39Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > 1. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies, under any emergency pretext whatsoever. I don’t know of any scenario under which the government would confiscate your food. The language sounds a lot like your boilerplate anti-tax mantra when they mention the word “confiscate”. Or they could be worried again about keeping their precious guns. In any event, the proper response to such a statement is “what the Dickens are you talking about?” I read this and thought “Hey, that means they won’t seize contraband, like say illegal drugs! And they won’t disarm criminals, like say before putting them in jail…” ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oathkeepers-org-for-us-military-police-etc/515707/46 "2009-10-30T22:57:57Z")
Why would anyone think that? Revolutions, in general, suck. The American Revolution (if you can call it that) was a rare exception. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oathkeepers-org-for-us-military-police-etc/515707/47 "2009-10-30T23:04:07Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > …The entire thing appears to be a **refusal** to do things, not a plan to do anything. It’s pointless, but harmless. > **[Posse Comitatus Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act)** > > The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385, original at 20 Stat. 152) signed into law on June 18, 1878, by President Rutherford B. Hayes that limits the use of federal military personnel to enforce domestic law by the federal government or by other government entities such as county sheriffs and justices of the peace. Congress passed the act as an amendment to an army appropriations bill following the end of Reconstruction and updated it in 1956, 1981 and 2021. “The statute generally prohibits federal military personnel and units of the National Guard under federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States, except where expressly authorized by the Constitution or Congress.” Troops used under the order of the President of the United States pursuant to the Insurrection Act, as was the case during the 1992 Los Angeles Riots. I guess that was ok, but then there was the military in Katrina and the confiscation of guns… “The US military will have around 20,000 uniformed personnel in this role in the United States by 2011, specifically trained and equipped to assist state and local government respond to major disasters, terrorist attacks, or other major public emergencies” (There are reports for alternative news sources that there are plans to have 379000 troops on U.S. soil though they might be wrong) “Homeland Security Enlists Clergy to Quell Public Unrest if Martial Law Ever Declared” Here’s the transcript: [http://www.ksla.com/Global/story.asp?S=6937987](http://www.ksla.com/Global/story.asp?S=6937987) Kind of unrelated, but interesting… [http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/us/14explorers.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/us/14explorers.html) “The responding officers — eight teenage boys and girls, the youngest 14…” Anyway, some “good” and “bad” people have quotes about gun control: [http://riseuprochester.org/2008/11/10/jesus-jefferson-gandhi-hamilton-and-hitler-on-gun-control/](http://riseuprochester.org/2008/11/10/jesus-jefferson-gandhi-hamilton-and-hitler-on-gun-control/) (Which is related to the morality(?) of the military confiscating all of the guns) ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oathkeepers-org-for-us-military-police-etc/515707/48 "2009-10-30T23:07:16Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Why would anyone think that? Revolutions, in general, suck. The American Revolution (if you can call it that) was a rare exception. I don’t think the oath keepers are about a big revolution though… they’re about keeping the country free - free speech, no secret arrests with no charges, etc. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oathkeepers-org-for-us-military-police-etc/515707/49 "2009-10-30T23:11:45Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > There’s no part of the oath against taking up arms against the lawfully elected government of the United States. I would think that would be a pretty basic thing to state about if one is truly concerned about protecting the Constitution. I think they allow states to succeed from the federation though… rather than there being a civil war… ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oathkeepers-org-for-us-military-police-etc/515707/50 "2009-10-30T23:16:09Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Why would anyone think that? Revolutions, in general, suck. The American Revolution (if you can call it that) was a rare exception. Actually it wasn’t, we just romanticize the aftermath away. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oathkeepers-org-for-us-military-police-etc/515707/51 "2009-10-30T23:17:14Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Maybe I’m just being uncharitable, but I can’t help wondering exactly how they define “American citizen.” It’s unfortunate that trust has broken down to this degree in this country. ---
**Author:** ![AdmiralCrunch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6f9a4e/32.png) [@AdmiralCrunch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AdmiralCrunch)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oathkeepers-org-for-us-military-police-etc/515707/52 "2009-10-30T23:17:19Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > [Posse Comitatus Act - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act) > “The statute generally prohibits federal military personnel and units of the National Guard under federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States, except where expressly authorized by the Constitution or Congress.” > > Troops used under the order of the President of the United States pursuant to the Insurrection Act, as was the case during the 1992 Los Angeles Riots. > > I guess that was ok, but then there was the military in Katrina and the confiscation of guns… > > “The US military will have around 20,000 uniformed personnel in this role in the United States by 2011, specifically trained and equipped to assist state and local government respond to major disasters, terrorist attacks, or other major public emergencies” > > (There are reports for alternative news sources that there are plans to have 379000 troops on U.S. soil though they might be wrong) > “Homeland Security Enlists Clergy to Quell Public Unrest if Martial Law Ever Declared” > Here’s the transcript: > [http://www.ksla.com/Global/story.asp?S=6937987](http://www.ksla.com/Global/story.asp?S=6937987) > Kind of unrelated, but interesting… > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/us/14explorers.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/us/14explorers.html) > “The responding officers — eight teenage boys and girls, the youngest 14…” > > Anyway, some “good” and “bad” people have quotes about gun control: > [http://riseuprochester.org/2008/11/10/jesus-jefferson-gandhi-hamilton-and-hitler-on-gun-control/](http://riseuprochester.org/2008/11/10/jesus-jefferson-gandhi-hamilton-and-hitler-on-gun-control/) > > (Which is related to the morality(?) of the military confiscating all of the guns) If only there were some sort of document that determined who has the authority to settle disputes about potentially illegal actions. But then the people in charge of writing the laws would just enforce and interpret them as they saw fit. There’d have to be a system of checks and balances of authority. Now that sounds like something I’d swear an oath to. It’d solve all of these issues. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oathkeepers-org-for-us-military-police-etc/515707/53 "2009-10-30T23:21:12Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > I don’t think the oath keepers are about a big revolution though… they’re about keeping the country free - free speech, no secret arrests with no charges, etc. People think I’m crazy because I’ve spent thousands of dollars on invisible elephant repellent, but I say you can never be too careful. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oathkeepers-org-for-us-military-police-etc/515707/54 "2009-10-30T23:23:01Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > I don’t think the oath keepers are about a big revolution though… they’re about keeping the country free - free speech, no secret arrests with no charges, etc. … no men with guns going around shooting people they decide are traitors… ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oathkeepers-org-for-us-military-police-etc/515707/55 "2009-10-30T23:24:02Z")
People scoff at the idea of law enforcement officials swearing an oath to uphold the constitution. Meanwhile somewhere on a state transit monopoly someone is being unreasonably searched. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oathkeepers-org-for-us-military-police-etc/515707/56 "2009-10-30T23:39:25Z")
Don’t law enforcement officials swear an oath to uphold the _law_? ---
**Author:** ![Cort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/77aa72/32.png) [@Cort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cort)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oathkeepers-org-for-us-military-police-etc/515707/57 "2009-10-30T23:48:02Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > I said it in the other thread a week or so ago about Pat Buchanan and I’ll say it again: > > These people are dumber than shit. The day the “Oathkeepers” have anything of value to contribute to the national political discourse, I’ll go over to Pat Buchanan’s house and personally fellate him while humming Dixie. Word. These people will NOT do anything whatsoever because they’re just a bunch of whiny little bitches. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oathkeepers-org-for-us-military-police-etc/515707/58 "2009-10-30T23:58:28Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Don’t law enforcement officials swear an oath to uphold the _law_? They swear to _defend_ the constitution and _enforce_ the law. Here’s the Florida police oath: > [@](#): > > I do solemnly swear; that I am a citizen of Florida and the United States of America, and I will support, protect, and defend the Constitutions of the United States and of Florida; I will faithfully perform my duties, enforcing the law fairly with all due courtesy, discretion, and compassion; I will conduct myself with integrity befitting my agency and the law enforcement profession; I will abide by all lawful orders issued by my superiors and the rules and regulations of the Department, so help me God. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oathkeepers-org-for-us-military-police-etc/515707/59 "2009-10-31T00:20:38Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > I think they allow states to succeed from the federation though… rather than there being a civil war… Who’s “they”? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oathkeepers-org-for-us-military-police-etc/515707/60 "2009-10-31T00:25:51Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Police went around confiscating firearms during Hurricane Katrina (the time when people needed them most) . . . :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oathkeepers-org-for-us-military-police-etc/515707.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oathkeepers-org-for-us-military-police-etc/515707.md?page=4)