# Obama Admin. violating 1st amendment? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 13, 2012, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-admin-violating-1st-amendment/640878 "2012-11-13T13:21:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![EverwonderWhy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EverwonderWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EverwonderWhy)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-admin-violating-1st-amendment/640878/101 "2012-11-15T16:34:16Z")
> [@Kalimero](#): > > Of course I was talking about male condoms. And what contraceptives can women avail themselves to so they don’t have to depend on a man? They have to see a healthcare provider to access female contraceptives. > [@Kalimero](#): > > I don’t think Viagra has to be covered necessarily. Still, impotence _prevents_ you from having sex. Not using oral contraceptives does not. > And paternalism towards women doesn’t disappear just because they get their contraceptives for free. Impotence is a natural part of male aging (akin to menopause in women) as men age their prostate enlarges decreasing blood flow rendering erections softer and shorter in duration. If a younger male suffers from impotency it is typically psychological or a symptom of another pathology (like high blood pressure, diabetes, etc). An unintended pregnancy is a pathology and a significant public health issue. I think I will side with the IOM, the WHO, the ACOG, and the world medical community at large on this. Rather than patriarchal religious institutions that think women’s natural role is to breed. Women aren’t getting their contraceptives for free, they are paying for them when they contribute to their insurance premiums. > [@Kalimero](#): > > There are cheaper methods to prevent prengnancies. Condoms, sex education… Women shouldn’t have to depend on male contraceptives to prevent pregnancies. They should have the same ease of access to female contraceptives that men do to (male) condoms. Particularly, since female contraceptives have greater success rates of preventing unintended pregnancy than condoms and women bear the biological consequence when an unintended pregnancy occurs. > [@Kalimero](#): > > How about: Awareness that both sexes are responsible for contraception. Proper use of condoms. Proper use and caveats of oral contraceptives. Do you suggest sex ed. is useless in preventing unwanted pregnancies? No, but sex ed is not an alternative to contraceptives, it is informing people about reproductive biology - it does not perform as contraception. Absolutely, both genders should be responsible or contraceptives, that’s the crux of the issue here, men can access (male) condoms designed for male anatomy, which depend greatly on male efficacy of use rather cheaply OTC; where women have to see a healthcare provider and either get a prescription or an implant for their contraceptives whilst paying 68% more than men in the same age group. Women contribute to their insurance premiums, they should have their healthcare covered. That’s the issue, the gender disparity in US healthcare and policy and\* health policy, by definition\*, has a significant role in addressing it. My only gripe with the HHS mandate is that it should include vasectomies for men. How would you address this disparity? Rather than spouting about “$15-$20/month really isn’t that much, women should just accept this inequity and pay more for their healthcare or depend on men to use condoms to protect them from unintended pregnancy.” ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-admin-violating-1st-amendment/640878/102 "2012-11-15T21:25:19Z")
> [@Kalimero](#): > > If offering birth control is a net cost saving for the insurance companies, why make coverage mandatory? Because free markets don’t work if people make decisions for non-economic reasons. Well, depending on what you mean by “work.” ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-admin-violating-1st-amendment/640878/103 "2012-11-15T21:32:19Z")
> [@EverwonderWhy](#): > > . . . Women shouldn’t have to depend on male contraceptives to prevent pregnancies. They should have the same ease of access to female contraceptives that men do to (male) condoms. . . . The cervical cap comes close. There are also “condom panties” that a woman can wear; a bit more expensive than condoms, but not by a whole lot. Also, if the two are engaged in consensual, cooperative sex, then the woman is using the condom, just as the man is. That is, they’re making use of it together. It’s a (ahem) joint responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![EverwonderWhy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EverwonderWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EverwonderWhy)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-admin-violating-1st-amendment/640878/104 "2012-11-15T22:27:41Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The cervical cap comes close. There are also “condom panties” that a woman can wear; a bit more expensive than condoms, but not by a whole lot. As already has been pointed out, women can not get cervical caps or diaphragms OTC in the US. They must be “fitted” by a healthcare provider. Interestingly, men don’t need to be “fitted” for male condoms. I’ve already argued that female barrier methods should be available OTC and even [birth control pills should be available OTC](http://bixby.berkeley.edu/bixby-chair-dr-malcolm-potts-la-times-op-ed-a-contraception-game-changer/). > [@Trinopus](#): > > Also, if the two are engaged in consensual, cooperative sex, then the woman is using the condom, just as the man is. That is, they’re making use of it together. It’s a (ahem) joint responsibility. Um, the point is that women can insist a man wears a condom, however, she isn’t physically wearing it even though she is “making use of it” as male condoms are designed for male anatomy and efficacy of use, without getting graphic, is more dependent on him, than on her. If a man were to provide a diaphragm or cervical cap for a women to wear during sex, he would be relying on her placement, ability to select the right size, proper removal technique, no? Even though they both are making use of it. Of course, both genders are responsible, but women must go through the healthcare system to access contraceptives that are designed for their anatomy and physiology, which also have a higher success rate than condoms (though female barrier methods are about equal) - and men jointly benefit from this even though women in the US have been paying 68% more than men out-of-pocket for healthcare. > [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](#): > > Because free markets don’t work if people make decisions for non-economic reasons. > > Well, depending on what you mean by “work.” The no cost-sharing provisions of the [HHS mandate](http://www.kff.org/healthreform/upload/8219.pdf) (which include immunizations, cancer screenings, cholesterol screenings, diabetes screenings, etc, in addition to contraceptives) are based on [Value Based Insurance Design (VBID)](http://vbidhealth.com/about.php) > [@](#): > > The premise of Value Based Insurance Design, and the focus of VBID Health, is to align patients’ out-of-pocket costs, such as copayments and deductibles, with the value of health services. By reducing barriers to high-value treatments (through lower costs to patients) and discouraging low-value treatments (through higher costs to patients), these plans can improve health outcomes. Studies have linked lower copayments for drugs to higher compliance, which ultimately has potential to yield long-term savings as a result of healthier enrollees and more productive employees. Value Based Insurance Design (VBID) Health specializes in designing and promoting health benefits plans that get more health out of every health care dollar spent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-admin-violating-1st-amendment/640878.md?page=5)