# Obama administration systematically and illegally spied on Americans for years **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 2, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-administration-systematically-and-illegally-spied-on-americans-for-years/787930 "2017-06-02T15:00:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-administration-systematically-and-illegally-spied-on-americans-for-years/787930/41 "2017-06-03T12:24:27Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Obama spied on Trump. Care to provide any evidence for this claim? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-administration-systematically-and-illegally-spied-on-americans-for-years/787930/42 "2017-06-03T13:59:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Care to provide any evidence for this claim? “[del]God[/del] Trump said it therefore I believe it.” ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-administration-systematically-and-illegally-spied-on-americans-for-years/787930/43 "2017-06-03T14:43:11Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > “[del]God[/del] Trump said it therefore I believe it.” Why would he lie?? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-administration-systematically-and-illegally-spied-on-americans-for-years/787930/44 "2017-06-03T17:12:04Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > **Okrahoma** , this will be my last request that you answer my questions. I already answered that question above. With a cite. The Trump administration is closing those doors that were wide-opened by the Obama administration. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-administration-systematically-and-illegally-spied-on-americans-for-years/787930/45 "2017-06-03T17:19:16Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I already answered that question above. With a cite. The Trump administration is closing those doors that were wide-opened by the Obama administration. And you think _that_ will stop the spying? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-administration-systematically-and-illegally-spied-on-americans-for-years/787930/46 "2017-06-03T21:04:41Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I already answered that question above. With a cite. The Trump administration is closing those doors that were wide-opened by the Obama administration. You haven’t answered my question. ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-administration-systematically-and-illegally-spied-on-americans-for-years/787930/47 "2017-06-04T02:08:24Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I already answered that question above. With a cite. The Trump administration is closing those doors that were wide-opened by the Obama administration. Cite? The doors appear to have been opened during GWB’s administration with the Patriot act, see the NYT story cited above. Your cite seems to support only the lesser claim that the doors remained open during the Obama administration. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-administration-systematically-and-illegally-spied-on-americans-for-years/787930/48 "2017-06-04T02:25:39Z")
> [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](#): > > Cite? The doors appear to have been opened during GWB’s administration with the Patriot act, see the NYT story cited above. Your cite seems to support only the lesser claim that the doors remained open during the Obama administration. Read it again. The quote is right here, in this thread, in my post #33. ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-administration-systematically-and-illegally-spied-on-americans-for-years/787930/49 "2017-06-04T02:33:53Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Read it again. The quote is right here, in this thread, in my post #33. I guess I must have missed it under the part of the article where it says, “On September 26, 2016, the NSA submitted its certifications for the reauthorization of its targeting and minimization procedures under FISA Section 702, and the FISC began a 30-day review.” You know, as a continuation of the surveillance authorized under GWB. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-administration-systematically-and-illegally-spied-on-americans-for-years/787930/50 "2017-06-04T02:38:37Z")
> [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](#): > > I guess I must have missed it under the part of the article where it says, “On September 26, 2016, the NSA submitted its certifications for the reauthorization of its targeting and minimization procedures under FISA Section 702, and the FISC began a 30-day review.” I guess you missed the “for the first time,” the NCTC be allowed to access certain “unminimized information acquired by NSA and FBI.” And I guess you missed the following paragraph explaining how Trump administration is closing that door now. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-administration-systematically-and-illegally-spied-on-americans-for-years/787930/51 "2017-06-04T02:47:31Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I guess you missed the > > “for the first time,” the NCTC be allowed to access certain “unminimized information acquired by NSA and FBI.” > > And I guess you missed the following paragraph explaining how Trump administration is closing that door now. Of course. Trump does not want the FBI to have access to the exchanges between the Trump administration and the Putin group. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-administration-systematically-and-illegally-spied-on-americans-for-years/787930/52 "2017-06-04T02:54:09Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I guess you missed the > > “for the first time,” the NCTC be allowed to access certain “unminimized information acquired by NSA and FBI.” > > And I guess you missed the following paragraph explaining how Trump administration is closing that door now. Ah, so in your view the NSA and FBI surveillance that began under GWB is completely okay and legal, but sharing that information with the National Counterterrorism Center (NCTC) specifically is the core of the problem as you see it? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-administration-systematically-and-illegally-spied-on-americans-for-years/787930/53 "2017-06-04T08:19:32Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Groups like the ACLU tried to reign in these abuses of power by the executive branch irrelevant of which party was in power. > > Here is a better link on the subject. > > [Obama intel agencies may have spied on Trump campaign](https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/05/30/obama-admin-illegal-spying-worse-than-watergate-glenn-reynolds-column/102284058/) **REIN** in, dammit. :mad: That is all. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-administration-systematically-and-illegally-spied-on-americans-for-years/787930/54 "2017-06-04T12:29:36Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > From all sources. Here it is from your lawfare blog: > > [Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court Approves New Targeting and Minimization Procedures: A Summary | Lawfare](https://www.lawfareblog.com/foreign-intelligence-surveillance-court-approves-new-targeting-and-minimization-procedures-summary) > > “On September 26, 2016, the government proposed that, “for the first time,” the NCTC be allowed to access certain “unminimized information acquired by NSA and FBI.” The court approved this access, noting that the information NCTC will receive is “subject to the same limitations as the CIA (no upstream Internet collection and no telephony).” Historically, NCTC’s access had been limited to minimized Section 702 information residing in FBI’s “general indices and relating to certain categories of investigations concerning international terrorism.” > > … > and Trump administration is closing these open doors: > > "By March 30, 2017, the government had submitted revised targeting and minimization procedures for the NSA and FBI, and minimization procedures for the CIA and the National Counterterrorism Center (NCTC). Notably, these procedures would significantly limit certain kinds of NSA upstream surveillance. According to Homeland Security Adviser Thomas Bossert, Trump’s newly-appointed national security team decided to “bless” the NSA proposals—which had been the most controversial—reasoning that it was necessary to “[strike] a balance to protect the country without getting into Americans’ privacy.” Can you interpret this for me? It seems to me that the spying will continue, but, for some reason, it won’t be used for counter-terrorism purposes. Is that right? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-administration-systematically-and-illegally-spied-on-americans-for-years/787930/55 "2017-06-04T14:57:29Z")
**Okrahoma** , you still didn’t answer my question for a cite for your claim that Obama spied on Trump. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-administration-systematically-and-illegally-spied-on-americans-for-years/787930/56 "2017-06-04T16:08:54Z")
Also bear in mind that **iiandyiii** is not a Trump voter, so “Trump tweeted that he did” will not constitute iron-clad proof. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-administration-systematically-and-illegally-spied-on-americans-for-years/787930/57 "2017-06-04T16:15:04Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > **REIN** in, dammit. :mad: > > That is all. The rein in Speign steys manely in the plane. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-administration-systematically-and-illegally-spied-on-americans-for-years/787930/58 "2017-06-05T15:50:27Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > **Okrahoma** , you still didn’t answer my question for a cite for your claim that Obama spied on Trump. Well, we have it directly from the horse’s… er, mouth: [QUOTE=The Twit Tweet] How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy! [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-administration-systematically-and-illegally-spied-on-americans-for-years/787930/59 "2017-06-05T16:06:56Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > [http://circa.com/politics/barack-obamas-team-secretly-disclosed-years-of-illegal-nsa-searches-spying-on-americans](http://circa.com/politics/barack-obamas-team-secretly-disclosed-years-of-illegal-nsa-searches-spying-on-americans) What is more upsetting to you-the possibility that the government spies on it’s citizens, or the fact that your diversionary “Ignore what is going on now. Look, over there-_they do it tooooo!_” tack just isn’t working? ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-administration-systematically-and-illegally-spied-on-americans-for-years/787930/60 "2017-06-05T23:06:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What is more upsetting to you-the possibility that the government spies on it’s citizens, or the fact that your diversionary “Ignore what is going on now. Look, over there-_they do it tooooo!_” tack just isn’t working? The most upsetting thing in that sentence isn’t either of those things, it’s the [ungrammatical insertion of an apostrophe](http://eloquentscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/angry-flower-guide-to-its.gif)! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-administration-systematically-and-illegally-spied-on-americans-for-years/787930.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-administration-systematically-and-illegally-spied-on-americans-for-years/787930.md?page=4)