# Obama and Divisiveness **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 8, 2016, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286 "2016-03-08T15:38:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/241 "2016-05-18T21:17:36Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Those threads bolster and stand up for the Clintons against common ideas and talking points used against them. I actually argued that Biden had no biz running, and Bernie shoulda stayed away from the emails. I’ll ask again for you to point to some specific posts, because saying that Biden’s scandals would be as bad as Hillary’s doesn’t exactly make you “the biggest Clinton fan on this site”. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/242 "2016-05-18T21:20:56Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I’ll ask again for you to point to some specific posts, because saying that Biden’s scandals would be as bad as Hillary’s doesn’t exactly make you “the biggest Clinton fan on this site”. I actually was arguing that his/Obama’s “scandals” would hurt him worse than attacks on the Clintons because people would be surprised by them, whereas the Clintons are a known quantity and the American people didn’t buy the attacks the last time. Also, given I was arguing against a Biden run, gee, why would I do that, given he would’ve hurt Hillary and potentially cost her the nomination. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/243 "2016-05-18T21:26:28Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Steve Israel and Chuck Schumer, Bob Menendez, Kathleen Rice, Bob Menendez, are prob my favs. Right on most domestic policy and foreign policy (like Iran deal and refugees) This Bob Menendez guy? Is he the same Bob Menendez, or is he the other one? ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/244 "2016-05-18T21:30:19Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > This Bob Menendez guy? Is he the same Bob Menendez, or is he the other one? the senator from NJ ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/245 "2016-05-18T21:48:31Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > I actually was arguing that his/Obama’s “scandals” would hurt him worse than attacks on the Clintons because people would be surprised by them, whereas the Clintons are a known quantity and the American people didn’t buy the attacks the last time. Wow, I’m sure she’s giddy from such adulation. Are you sure you’re not a paid shill? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/246 "2016-05-19T15:40:43Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > Republicans had excuses for denying the legitimacy of Bill Clinton’s presidency (“He never had a majority! Perot was a spoiler!”) as well as Obama’s (“Muslim! Kenyan anti-colonialist!”). I don’t think they know how to regard the opposing party any other way anymore. They’ll say that since any Republican other than Trump would have (supposedly) beaten her, that she doesn’t really have a mandate to be president, or that she’s so corrupt that merely occupying the Oval Office is tantamount to an impeachable offense. Point is, they’ll find something. I recall during the Clinton years, Limbaugh opened every episode of his short-lived TV show with “Day X: America Held Hostage!” Some if not most RWs seem to think that the Reagan Revolution was a once-and-for-all thing after which no Dem **can** legitimately be POTUS, that would be an impossible reversal of history, like a Jacobite restoration. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/247 "2016-05-19T17:39:38Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I recall during the Clinton years, Limbaugh opened every episode of his short-lived TV show with “Day X: America Held Hostage!” > > Some if not most RWs seem to think that the Reagan Revolution was a once-and-for-all thing after which no Dem **can** legitimately be POTUS, that would be an impossible reversal of history, like a Jacobite restoration. Obviously, I think Limbaugh and the GOP was out of line in the 1990s, given how moderate Clinton was compared to most Dems, but its obvious why the GOP hated Clinton; they knew he’d destroy their electoral college “lock.” (IL, CA, NM, VT, NJ, NH From '68-'88 (incl.) GOP 6 out of 6, MI, DE, CT, ME, From '68-'88 (incl.) GOP 5 out of 6 PA, MD. From '68-'88 (incl.) GOP 4 out of 6 Since '92 (incl), every one of those states except NH/NM has gone Dem 6/6. NM & NH have gone Dem 5 out of 6 times.) I don’t condone much of the stuff they do to Obama, like the “born in Kenya” bit, or that ACORN stole the election, but I’m simply saying that when public opinion is divided on something, Obama doesn’t act like it, see his reaction to George Zimmerman (which polls had the American people overall split on what happened) or [trangender bathroom issue](http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/poll-transgender-bathroom-laws-223356). When Clinton saw Americans divided, he sought compromise, a Third Way from liberals and conservatives, and I think that was a good thing. Examples included welfare reform, OJ Simpson, crime, etc. Given that, I do think there is definitely truth to Obama can be divisive. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/248 "2016-05-19T17:59:35Z")
So Republicans blame Clinton for the fact that they’re diminishing in appeal and influence and can’t carry the states they’ve always carried? They truly are delusional. An alternate way of viewing the difference between Obama and Clinton: when there’s an issue with a clear right and wrong, Obama doesn’t read the polls before deciding how he feels. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/249 "2016-05-19T19:05:01Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > I only call him by his middle name to irk the people who condone some of his big time foreign policy blunders. I don’t actually care that his dad was a Muslim or his skin color. Really. You just post that in order to “irk” people. Interesting… How’s that working out for you in a forum outside of the Pit? ---
**Author:** ![MindsEye\_Watering](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindseye_watering/32/3619_2.png) [@MindsEye\_Watering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindsEye_Watering)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/250 "2016-05-19T19:58:58Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Really. > > You just post that in order to “irk” people. > > Interesting… How’s that working out for you in a forum outside of the Pit? There’s a name for that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/251 "2016-05-19T20:21:24Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > So Republicans blame Clinton for the fact that they’re diminishing in appeal and influence and can’t carry the states they’ve always carried? They truly are delusional. I didn’t say “blame” as in current; I meant back 20 years ago, he was actively throwing their 1968-1988 electoral lock into the ocean. > [@jsc1953](#): > > An alternate way of viewing the difference between Obama and Clinton: when there’s an issue with a clear right and wrong, Obama doesn’t read the polls before deciding how he feels. See, this is the smugness that’s feeding Trump; that idea that anyone who doesn’t see the progressive POV as “right” and the not-progressive one as “wrong” is indeed wrong/immoral. The Zimmerman case (back in 2013, before George started acting up) was not some case Obama should’ve commented on before with his “my son could’ve looked like Trayvon,” given the facts that came out during the trial and the media spin around Trayvon. Nor should the government have tried to cook up a case against Zimmerman, who wasn’t even white. And with transgender bathrooms, there are still decent people who might dispute the concept of transgenderism who are decent, honorable people, hence why America is divided, and even Democrats are not 100% (or even 70%) on it, in [case you didn’t read](http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/poll-transgender-bathroom-laws-223356). ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/252 "2016-05-19T20:38:01Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > I didn’t say “blame” as in current; I meant back 20 years ago, he was actively throwing their 1968-1988 electoral lock into the ocean. > See, this is the smugness that’s feeding Trump; that idea that anyone who doesn’t see the progressive POV as “right” and the not-progressive one as “wrong” is indeed wrong/immoral. The Zimmerman case (back in 2013, before George started acting up) was not some case Obama should’ve commented on before with his “my son could’ve looked like Trayvon,” given the facts that came out during the trial and the media spin around Trayvon. Nor should the government have tried to cook up a case against Zimmerman, who wasn’t even white. Cook up a case??? He confronted and shot an unarmed man who was breaking no laws, and claimed it was self defense! That sounds like a case that didn’t need much cooking. And if Obama had an opinion on that, and voiced it, that’s fine with me. Right and Wrong don’t need to enter into it. > [@](#): > > And with transgender bathrooms, there are still decent people who might dispute the concept of transgenderism who are decent, honorable people, hence why America is divided, and even Democrats are not 100% (or even 70%) on it, in [case you didn’t read](http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/poll-transgender-bathroom-laws-223356). Transgenderism is a fact, not a “concept”. How our society treats transgendered people is what’s at debate. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/253 "2016-05-19T21:22:42Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > See, this is the smugness that’s feeding Trump; that idea that anyone who doesn’t see the progressive POV as “right” and the not-progressive one as “wrong” is indeed wrong/immoral. Substituting whatever else for “progressive,” that is pretty much exactly the view of anybody who has any strong political views at all. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/254 "2016-05-19T21:55:52Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > When Clinton saw Americans divided, he sought compromise, a Third Way from liberals and conservatives, and I think that was a good thing. Examples included welfare reform, OJ Simpson, crime, etc. Very little of that was a good thing in hindsight. In terms of practical effects, “welfare reform” was one of the worst Democratic policy mistakes in decades and the crime bill comes close behind, and that’s not even covering NAFTA. Let’s not have any Democrats who are capable of “compromises” like that in office any more, shall we? ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/255 "2016-05-19T21:56:18Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Cook up a case??? He confronted and shot an unarmed man who was breaking no laws, and claimed it was self defense! That sounds like a case that didn’t need much cooking. And if Obama had an opinion on that, and voiced it, that’s fine with me. Right and Wrong don’t need to enter into it. > > Transgenderism is a fact, not a “concept”. How our society treats transgendered people is what’s at debate. Trayvon was walking across other peoples’ lawns (plural) which is trespassing and loitering, according to the information available. Who is Obama to decide Zimmerman was lying, unless there was video tape otherwise? And that’s beside the fact; the job of the POTUS is the be president of all Americans, and given how Americans were divided on Zimmerman, he had a right to act like that. And there is indeed still debate whether transgender ideology is truth, but that’s another debate. But its still a dividing line of non-consensus that President of all Americans, not just progressive Americans, ought to see. ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/256 "2016-05-19T22:21:44Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > And there is indeed still debate whether transgender ideology is truth, but that’s another debate. But its still a dividing line of non-consensus that President of all Americans, not just progressive Americans, ought to see. I’m pretty sure the Dems can survive without your vote. And if they can’t, I’d rather see them just peter out than promote regressive policy. ---
**Author:** ![MindsEye\_Watering](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindseye_watering/32/3619_2.png) [@MindsEye\_Watering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindsEye_Watering)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/257 "2016-05-19T22:23:26Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Trayvon was walking across other peoples’ lawns (plural) which is trespassing and loitering, according to the information available. He clearly deserved a death sentence. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/258 "2016-05-19T22:33:57Z")
> [@MindsEye\_Watering](#): > > He clearly deserved a death sentence. The pictures of Zimmerman after the incident showed he was clearly attacked. Zimmerman said he verbally confronted Trayvon before something gave Zimmerman those gashes from the initial mugshot, and there was no reason one could believe otherwise unless they automatically just assume it was a racist attack. Not Obamas place to do that. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/259 "2016-05-19T22:42:04Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > The pictures of Zimmerman after the incident showed he was clearly attacked. Zimmerman said he verbally confronted Trayvon before something gave Zimmerman those gashes from the initial mugshot, and there was no reason one could believe otherwise unless they automatically just assume it was a racist attack. Not Obamas place to do that. If we’re going to rehash the case, this will go on for days. Or we could just link to the old thread. [But…so Zimmerman picked a fight (brave man, packing a gun) wound up getting his ass kicked, so he shot him.] You seem to be implying that the President should withhold his opinion on a controversial issue. That seems to me to be the opposite of Leadership. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/260 "2016-05-19T23:33:34Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > You seem to be implying that the President should withhold his opinion on a controversial issue. That seems to me to be the opposite of Leadership. or maybe the facts should be known, especially given that this country is supposed to value due process, which had not occurred yet when Obama made him comment about “if I had a son…” But then again, its the same mentality that promotes college using lower standards than “resonable doubt” for rape allegations, which Obama’s “Dear Colleague” letter endorsed (which yes many schools already had, but its unjust given the economic and social consequences for a person when a school “finds someone responsible” for something like rape/sex assault) that government should not be promoting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286.md?page=14)