# Obama and Divisiveness **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 8, 2016, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286 "2016-03-08T15:38:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/421 "2016-06-01T23:38:11Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Obama’s shown no such remorse of his apology tour in the ME or Western Europe in years past. You’ve shown no evidence of an “apology tour” anywhere. Are you ever going to provide actual evidence, or is everything you claim about Obama just based on innuendo rather than anything he’s actually said or done? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/422 "2016-06-01T23:38:53Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Reagan didn’t constantly do that kind of thing. He also had many occasions, before and after, in which he praised American exceptionalism. Also, the fact that it leaked that Buchanan wrote that speech shows that the WH saw a mistake was made and turned Buchanan into the fall guy. Obama’s shown no such remorse of his apology tour in the ME or Western Europe in years past. Yes he did. Reagan apologized constantly, because he hated freedom. Remember that time that Reagan did an “apology tour”, and went all over the world saying how sorry he was that America was so bad? Yes, he did that, but don’t ask me for proof, because we all know he did it, and it’s obvious. (this is fun!) ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/423 "2016-06-01T23:56:59Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Also, the fact that it leaked that Buchanan wrote that speech shows that the WH saw a mistake was made and turned Buchanan into the fall guy. Uh…HUH. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/424 "2016-06-02T02:45:55Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Reagan didn’t constantly do that kind of thing. How many times has Obama lain a wreath on a monument to people killed in a war in which they were fighting Americans? I think, to my knowledge, Reagan and Obama are tied at this point. > [@](#): > > He [Reagan] also had many occasions, before and after, in which he praised American exceptionalism. Also, the fact that it leaked that Buchanan wrote that speech shows that the WH saw a mistake was made and turned Buchanan into the fall guy. The second sentence doesn’t seem to do much to vindicate Reagan, does it? He made mistakes that he had to apologize for; in fact, he bungled a diplomatic moment. I see that you haven’t addressed my comment that Obama may have had strategic regions for getting in close with Japan. That, coupled with the fact that he didn’t apologize (but instead spoke of the horrors of war), could very well explain the trip. And I thought I quoted you Obama’s full remarks about American exceptionalism earlier. You are so hung up on the fact that he also referenced British Exceptionalism, et al. You are aware, are you not, that the question came from a correspondent from the Financial Times, an International Newspaper, while at a NATO summit? It’s only polite to address the international crowd in the room. But then President Obama [said](https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/news-conference-president-obama-4042009) _exactly what you are clamoring for him to say: That the U.S. can take credit for winning WW2 and freeing Europe_: [QUOTE=President Obama, in France, in 2009] I believe in American exceptionalism, just as I suspect that the Brits believe in British exceptionalism and the Greeks believe in Greek exceptionalism. \*\*I’m enormously proud of my country and its role and history in the world. If you think about the site of this summit and what it means, I don’t think America should be embarrassed to see evidence of the sacrifices of our troops, the enormous amount of resources that were put into Europe postwar, and our leadership in crafting an Alliance that ultimately led to the unification of Europe. We should take great pride in that. \*\* And if you think of our current situation, the United States remains the largest economy in the world. We have unmatched military capability. And I think that we have a core set of values that are enshrined in our Constitution, in our body of law, in our democratic practices, in our belief in free speech and equality, that, though imperfect, are exceptional. [/QUOTE] (Emphasis added) [QUOTE=DerekMichaels00] Obama’s shown no such remorse of his apology tour in the ME or Western Europe in years past. [/QUOTE] I challenge you to a “quote off”; I’ll go first. [Here’s](https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/10/29/remarks-president-american-health-care-workers-fighting-ebola) one, from October 29, 2014, where he comments on doctors going to Africa to combat the Ebola Virus: [QUOTE=President Obama] A lot of people talk about American exceptionalism. I’m a firm believer in American exceptionalism. You know why I am? It’s because of folks like this. It’s because we don’t run and hide when there’s a problem. Because we don’t react to our fears, but instead, we respond with commonsense and skill and courage. That’s the best of our history – not fear, not hysteria, not misinformation. We react clearly and firmly, even with others are losing their heads. That’s part of the reason why we’re effective. That’s part of the reason why people look to us. And because of the work that’s being done by folks like this and by folks who are right now, as we speak, in the three affected countries, we’re already seeing a difference. [/QUOTE] Now, show me one where he apologizes on America’s behalf. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/425 "2016-06-02T03:01:38Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Yes he did. Reagan apologized constantly, because he hated freedom. . . . > > (this is fun!) I remember when [Reagan apologized one time](https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1955&dat=19830913&id=1RsiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=AKcFAAAAIBAJ&pg=5823,2840432&hl=en) that he should have stood tough and told the whiners to belt up. It was when he spoke of being “fed up to his kiester” about something, and the people of the small town of Kiester, MN complained about it. He should not have apologized. It’s their own stupid fault for naming their town after the human buttocks. they’ve since changed it to Asstuchisbutt (this is fun!) ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/426 "2016-06-02T05:42:14Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > more like he did not have to go there. Obama is too concerned with what he thinks is morally right in the short term rather than the unintended consequences of such things in the long term, given how his speech will motivate more people to go vote Trump and give him talking points. Your concern is touching. > [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Obama’s shown no such remorse of his apology tour in the ME or Western Europe in years past. Because it never happened. > **[Mitt Romney said Barack Obama began his presidency with an apology tour](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2012/aug/31/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-said-barack-obama-began-his-presidency/)** > > In his speech accepting the Republican nomination for president, Mitt Romney repeated a charge he’s made before: that Ob ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/427 "2016-06-02T05:50:03Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Your concern is touching. > > Because it never happened. > > [PolitiFact | Mitt Romney said Barack Obama began his presidency with an apology tour](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/aug/31/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-said-barack-obama-began-his-presidency/) given that yea, Obama didn’t explicitly apologize, that is probably what polifact was getting at. Fact is those speeches earlier in his term mostly sounded and read mostly remorseful and regretful. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/428 "2016-06-02T06:10:41Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > given that yea, Obama didn’t explicitly apologize, that is probably what polifact was getting at. Fact is those speeches earlier in his term mostly sounded and read mostly remorseful and regretful. Only to Limbaugh and Hannity, not to any actual member of his audience in the U.S., Europe, or the Middle East. (I note that you still cannot find even a single quotation from Obama to support your silliness.) ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/429 "2016-06-02T07:17:56Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > given that yea, Obama didn’t explicitly apologize, that is probably what polifact was getting at. Fact is those speeches earlier in his term mostly sounded and read mostly remorseful and regretful. From the article: > [@](#): > > • John Murphy, a communications professor at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, studies presidential rhetoric and political language. He said Obama used conciliatory language for diplomatic purposes, not apologizing. > > “It’s much more a sense of establishing of reciprocity,” Murphy said. “Each side says, okay, we haven’t done great, but we have a new president and we’re going to make a fresh start and move forward. I don’t think that’s an apology.” > > • Lauren Bloom, an attorney and business consultant, wrote the book, The Art of the Apology, advising businesses and individuals on when to apologize and how to do it. > > She said Obama’s words fell short of an apology, mostly because he didn’t use the words “sorry” or “regret.” “I think to make an effective apology, the words ‘I’m sorry’ or ‘we’re sorry’ always have to be there,” Bloom said. > > Obama’s remarks were really non-apologies, and they’re not good in business or personal relationships, Bloom said. The one area where they can be useful: international diplomacy. > > “Gov. Romney is trying to appeal to the inner John Wayne of his readers, and that has a certain emotional appeal,” Bloom said. “For the rest of us, a level assessment of less-than-perfect human behavior is perfectly reasonable.” It wasn’t an “apology tour”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/430 "2016-06-02T12:12:25Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > given that yea, Obama didn’t explicitly apologize, that is probably what polifact was getting at. Fact is those speeches earlier in his term mostly sounded and read mostly remorseful and regretful. Only to folks predisposed to think that Obama is not truly American. One sign of these kinds of feelings is inserting his middle name into discussions for no reason at all. Can’t you even put effort into your Obama-bashing by providing specific quotes? What, specifically, has he said that you think is an apology for America? The specific words, please, not your own interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/431 "2016-06-02T12:32:49Z")
I actuallly have no problem with what Obama said in Hiroshima. But I still believe he’s unnecessarily divisive and he’s only become moreso now that he has no more elections where he’s the candidate. I also still think his partisan shots are unPresidential and his shots against Trump also qualify. I’ve just never seen a sitting President get involved in his successor’s race this much. I don’t remember Reagan taking shots at Dukakis much, or Clinton taking shots at GWB. He’s even felt the need to pontificate on Sanders and Biden(through spokesmen in the latter case). I’ve just never seen a lame duck President interfere in an election this much. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/432 "2016-06-02T12:38:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I actuallly have no problem with what Obama said in Hiroshima. But I still believe he’s unnecessarily divisive and he’s only become moreso now that he has no more elections where he’s the candidate. I also still think his partisan shots are unPresidential and his shots against Trump also qualify. I’ve just never seen a sitting President get involved in his successor’s race this much. I don’t remember Reagan taking shots at Dukakis much, or Clinton taking shots at GWB. He’s even felt the need to pontificate on Sanders and Biden(through spokesmen in the latter case). I’ve just never seen a lame duck President interfere in an election this much. Considering the stakes, I find it very Presidential. UnPresidential would be refusing to do anything to help defeat someone who would be disastrous for the country. Reagan was probably not up to campaigning in any sense in '88. Gore made the specific decision to keep Clinton at a distance in 2000. Clinton has not, and Obama is raring to go. Considering how much Obama got under Trump’s skin at the WH Correspondents’ dinner a few years ago after all the Birther crap, I think he’ll be very, very effective. And it’s entirely appropriate. Political attacks (in the general sense) are not “unPresidential”. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/433 "2016-06-02T12:58:03Z")
Precedent shows that there’s a way to do it and a way not to do it. Obama is indistinguishable from Carville or Novak on Crossfire. Presidents are supposed to at least appear to be above politics, especially when it’s not a race that is directly their concern. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/434 "2016-06-02T13:13:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Precedent shows that there’s a way to do it and a way not to do it. Obama is indistinguishable from Carville or Novak on Crossfire. Bullshit. But whatever, this is just style or tone criticism. > [@](#): > > Presidents are supposed to at least appear to be above politics, especially when it’s not a race that is directly their concern. Whether they’re supposed to or not, they rarely do. Every recent president has liberally used political attacks. Especially the most successful ones. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/435 "2016-06-02T13:24:12Z")
C’mon, liberals have been the butt of his asshole-ness on more than one occasion. Liz Warren especially. “She’s a politician just like me”. Stop projecting, Barack. I don’t like Liz, but she’s a true believer. You’re just a cynic. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/436 "2016-06-02T13:35:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > C’mon, liberals have been the butt of his asshole-ness on more than one occasion. Liz Warren especially. “She’s a politician just like me”. Stop projecting, Barack. I don’t like Liz, but she’s a true believer. You’re just a cynic. No idea what this is, but it has nothing to do with anything I’ve said. I assume this comes from your personal dislike of Obama, but I have no idea what you’re trying to say. ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/437 "2016-06-02T14:04:29Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Obama’s shown no such remorse of his apology tour in the ME or Western Europe in years past. Yeah! He should be out there apologizing for his apology tour! ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/438 "2016-06-02T15:22:21Z")
Remember all those “Obama-Superman” memes that were floating around way back when? Well, I think that what has happened is that Obama was exposed to a form of Kryptonite that split him into two individuals. Like that imaginary story with “Superman-Red and Superman-Blue”, we have “Actual-Obama and Fantasy-Obama”. Actual-Obama makes a speech in the Middle East, Fantasy-Obama runs around apologizing. Actual-Obama signs fewer executive orders than Bush, Fantasy-Obama governs by fiat. Actual-Obama, well, you get the idea. Obama is not divisive in the sense that he _causes_ division, he just highlights the division that exists, mostly just by being who and what he is. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/439 "2016-06-02T16:50:53Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > II also still think his partisan shots are unPresidential and his shots against Trump also qualify. I’ve just never seen a sitting President get involved in his successor’s race this much. I don’t remember Reagan taking shots at Dukakis much… I realize that your use of “much” gives you some wiggle room, but Reagan did take a pretty significant shot at Dukakis during the '88 election. From [here](http://articles.latimes.com/1988-08-04/news/mn-10203_1_mental-health). > [@](#): > > Democratic presidential nominee Michael S. Dukakis on Wednesday released a detailed medical history, responding to press inquiries that have followed weeks of unsubstantiated rumors about his mental health. > > The release of the report, showing that he is in good physical and mental health, was prompted by a remark by President Reagan on Wednesday morning. Asked about Dukakis, Reagan said he did not want to “pick on an invalid,” then later insisted that he had meant the remark in jest. Now, Michael Dukakis is a good man. He may be a milquetoast, and he may not have made a good president, but he has integrity and character. When it came out that his campaign was responsible for the revelations about Joe Biden’s plagiarism (which were true), Dukakis actually [apologized](http://articles.latimes.com/1987-10-03/news/mn-2956_1_biden-supporters), calling it a “very serious mistake”. > [@](#): > > Dukakis repeatedly accepted responsibility for the videotape’s distribution even though he said it was done without his knowledge. He told audiences that he was amazed when he learned his campaign had been involved in Biden’s withdrawal because he had made it clear to his staff that he wanted to run a positive race…“I am very, very sorry that anybody in my campaign in any way contributed to what was a very, very painful experience for him (Biden) and for his family and his supporters,” Dukakis told reporters. Trump, on the other hand, has been publicly questioning the President’s citizenship for years. And now he has expressed views (such as those about economics or international diplomacy) that many experts agree would be a disaster. I don’t fault the President for being willing to say that the man is not qualified to be elected. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/440 "2016-06-02T16:52:17Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > given that yea, Obama didn’t explicitly apologize, that is probably what polifact was getting at. Fact is those speeches earlier in his term mostly sounded and read mostly remorseful and regretful. So quote them! Let us find out what they sounded and read like for ourselves. I’m sure that you are up to the task. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286.md?page=23)