# Obama and Divisiveness **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 8, 2016, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286 "2016-03-08T15:38:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/461 "2016-06-03T01:34:01Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > DerekMichaels00 wrote:" it sounds like he’s saying America is exceptional because of Barack Obama." > > Hey, show me another country with a President who would have had a hard time even voting 50 years ago. you have a great point, but no one should be giving themselves the Oscar, Obama included. [QUOTE=BrainGlutton] America is not exceptional, and thinking or saying so is not patriotic, it is dishonest. I make some allowances for Obama here because the POTUS is supposed to say only nice things about America; but no patriotic private citizen should. [/QUOTE] also, the fact you can give Obama a pass is a sign that he’s probably given people with your views a wink and a nod in believing such things about America not being exceptional. [QUOTE=iiandyiiii] We get it - there is something intrinsic to the man, something perhaps related to his middle name which you mention so often, that you dislike. [/QUOTE] No its not about his middle name, its about his view of America and the world, thing which are not instrinsic; its something influenced by his blindness that radical profs and people (like Wright, Khalidi, Said induced). Maybe some of it is grievance culture. Not everything critical of Obama is some sort of racism/prejudice. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/462 "2016-06-03T01:45:35Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > why is it not? Because it was the first modern representative democracy without a monarch? Because it played a pivotal role in freeing the world from fascism and communism? I didn’t know those were bad things. They’re not bad things, but they don’t make America the most special country in the world. Many other countries have done great things and been great things, it’s not exceptional. Many other countries have adopted democracy or republican government, including several in Europe predating the U.S., it’s not exceptional. Many have great achievements to their national credit and great crimes to their national shame, as we do; it’s not exceptional. The U.S. is the richest and most powerful country in the world – if that’s the criterion for greatness, well, we weren’t that between Independence and WWII, and many other countries have been that before us, it’s not exceptional. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/463 "2016-06-03T01:59:56Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > this!! The UK doesn’t even have a constitution, and democracy was forced on most of Europe as a solution to endless wars and inspired by America (before mass Muslim immigration to Europe of course). THOSE countries in Europe nearly all have crosses on their flags and state churches (which monarchs as their heads), things progressives should laugh at Europe for but don’t even know. We know, we just see no reason to make a fuss over it. The countries of Europe are free, the monarchs and state churches are not oppressing anybody in any way and do not get in the way of the democracy working, and the societies are actually rather more secular and post-Christian than ours, which rules out the possibility that the monarchs and churches would ever find it politically possible to oppress anybody if they were inclined. And, no the UK has no written constitution – and has managed pretty well as a free and democratic country without one. In some respects their civil-liberties record is better than ours (haven’t had a death penalty for decades). Maybe a written constitution ain’t all it’s cracked up to be. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/464 "2016-06-03T02:10:33Z")
Adaher wrote "The US is exceptional. Not because of our power, but because of our liberty. Other countries are free today, but no country codifies freedom or makes it as much a part of the culture as we do. For other countries, democracy and freedom “work”, and if one day they don’t seem to be working they will gladly turn back to despots and kings. " God help me, I agree with Adaher on something. I remember hearing a story once about some foreign dignitaries who attended an event at which a comedian made fun of the President, who was also in attendance and laughing uproariously at the jokes at his expense. They said something to the effect that their country had a constitution that included freedom of speech too, but you’d never see something like that there. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/465 "2016-06-03T02:13:02Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Why was the world owed an apology? Iraq, in theory, OK. But not the world, theory or practice. The Iraq invasion and the way it was handled, directly promoted the rise of ISIS: for the that, the world is owed an apology, (although it is hardly Obama’s responsibility to provide it since he actually opposed the war before GWB launched it). ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/466 "2016-06-03T02:14:49Z")
[QUOTE=DerekMichaels00] I know Hillary’s paying lipservice to Obama’s foreign policy praises to please the base and him, but Hillary shows that Giuliani was right; Dem POTUSes (and HRC, a wouldbe POTUS) talk about USA in a much more unifying way than “America is a nation of cowards” or “America is exceptional…like Greece.” [/QUOTE] So your evidence that the President is insufficiently patriotic is patriotic quotes from other people while manufacturing quotes that Obama never said? You aren’t making a convincing argument. [Here’s](https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/07/25/remarks-president-economy-warrensburg-missouri) another sample of Obama’s words on American exceptionalism (this time while talking about the economy while at the University of Central Missouri, in 2013). > [@](#): > > So we did this together [improve the economy after the Great Recession], because Americans are gritty and resilient and work hard… > Technology, global competition – those things are not going away. So we can either throw up our hands and resign ourselves to lower living standards, or we can do what America has always done – we can adapt, we can pull together, we can fight back, we can win… > What makes us special – a lot of times we talk about American exceptionalism and how much we love this country, and there are so many wonderful things about our country. But what makes us the envy of the world has not just been our ability to generate incredible wealth for a few people; it’s the fact that we’ve given everybody a chance to pursue their own true measure of happiness. (Applause.) That’s who we are. > We haven’t just wanted success for ourselves; we want it for our neighbors. We want it for our neighborhoods. That’s why we don’t call it Bob’s dream or Barbara’s dream or Barack’s dream – we call it the American Dream. (Applause.) It’s one that we share. That’s who we are – the idea that no matter who you are, what you look like, where you come from, who you love, you can make it here in America if you’re trying hard. I’m still waiting for his comments which reflect poorly on the country. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/467 "2016-06-03T02:17:33Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > … its about his view of America and the world, … Your view of his view of America and the world appears to be something you have made up completely out of thin air. You refuse to (or are incapable of) making posts that back up your view with quotes or cites. You simply continue to repeat the same assertions, over and over and over, but when challenged on those assertions, you cannot support them with any evidence whatsoever. If you were on a high school debate team, the middle schoolers would clean your clock. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/468 "2016-06-03T02:41:30Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > No its not about his middle name, its about his view of America and the world, thing which are not instrinsic; its something influenced by his blindness that radical profs and people (like Wright, Khalidi, Said induced). Maybe some of it is grievance culture. Not everything critical of Obama is some sort of racism/prejudice. His view of America and the world have nothing to do with your baseless assertions. It’s all innuendo and false interpretation. You’ve presented nothing but the kind of “logic” that only Rush Limbaugh and Hannity take seriously. Why would you choose to ally yourself with them in choosing to interpret every possible thing the President does as if he hates America? I’ll ask again for the millionth time – show the specific quotes from Obama that you think are apologies, or disrespectful to America. You’ve been shown many, many quotes from Obama that shows how exceptional he believes America is, and how much he loves this country, and how much he believes in it. He’s one of the most optimistic Presidents about America in our history – no one pumps up our future as much as he does. No, not every criticism against Obama is because of racism or prejudice, but when you repeatedly mention his middle name for no reason whatsoever, and when you have no basis for your criticism at all, and when you just so happen to agree with the bigots on the extreme right about some supposed lack of patriotism with no basis at all, then there don’t see to be too many other motivations that I can think of for such ridiculous and repeated false assertions. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/469 "2016-06-03T05:04:07Z")
**DerekMichaels00** , this is **Great Debates** , not **In My Humble Opinion**. You continue to make baseless claims while failing to provide the least bit of evidence to support your unfounded views. You are free to believe whatever you choose, of course, but you are not free to simply post those beliefs while refusing to support them with evidence. If you do not begin to support your beliefs with verifiable facts, I am going to close this thread. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/470 "2016-06-03T05:05:48Z")
Can’t we just move it to the pit? ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/471 "2016-06-03T15:02:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You’ve been shown many, many quotes from Obama that shows how exceptional he believes America is, and how much he loves this country, and how much he believes in it. He’s one of the most optimistic Presidents about America in our history – no one pumps up our future as much as he does. I think the lesson we are supposed to take is: Obama doesn’t mean the things he says, but Obama _totally_ means the things he _doesn’t_ say. Interesting viewpoint, to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/472 "2016-06-03T21:12:37Z")
Even the line quoted in the OP about “my son would have looked like Trayvon”, widely pointed to as proof of Obama’s divisiveness, could be view as an expression of empathy toward some folks who just lost _their_ son. As in, “I know how you must feel, because I know how I’d feel.” ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/473 "2016-06-04T15:06:56Z")
Damn, **E-DUB** , why are you being so divisive? ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/474 "2016-06-04T15:38:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The US is exceptional. Not because of our power, but because of our liberty. Other countries are free today, but no country codifies freedom or makes it as much a part of the culture as we do. For other countries, democracy and freedom “work”, and if one day they don’t seem to be working they will gladly turn back to despots and kings. Good for them, and bad for us. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/475 "2016-06-04T15:46:36Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > I do have positive things to say about him; I do like Obamacare since it cuts out the ripoff “brokers” and takes the wool of the eyes of a plan buyer, I like his protection of abortion rights and the environment. > > However, on Hiroshima, most polls indicate that Americans think it was the right thing to nuke it by wide margins > > see: > [https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/05/20/Americans-unapologetic-over-WW2-atom-bomb-attack/](https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/05/20/Americans-unapologetic-over-WW2-atom-bomb-attack/) > [70 years after Hiroshima, opinions have shifted on use of atomic bomb | Pew Research Center](http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/08/04/70-years-after-hiroshima-opinions-have-shifted-on-use-of-atomic-bomb/) > [Japan](http://www.pollingreport.com/japan.htm) > > While I’m away a CBS poll showed a divided public, its probably an outlier. Fact is Obama fails to represent or even acknowledge the majority stance on too much. Not only does it kind of feel like he thinks America is “unenlightened.” The atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a war crime. Obama should have apologized for it, although he didn’t. Murder of innocent civilians is wrong, no matter what you hope to gain by it. I could really care less what the majority of Americans think about nuclear war. Morality isn’t up to public opinion. As for ‘freeing the world from communism’, well, a majority of people in most eastern European countries now thinks they were better off under communism, and the collapse of the Soviet Union resulted in probably the second biggest economic and humanitarian disaster in modern peacetime history (HIV in Africa was probably the biggest), so you’ll excuse me for not considering that a moral triumph either. You do realize, right, that the Soviet Union had a higher median income growth than the United States during your buddy Reagan’s first term? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/476 "2016-06-04T16:11:27Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Good for them, and bad for us. Kings is better? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/477 "2016-06-04T16:19:18Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Kings is better? Kings is good, but Aces is best! ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/478 "2016-06-04T17:07:28Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > I could really care less what the majority of Americans think about nuclear war. Morality isn’t up to public opinion. Morality is nothing but public opinion. > [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > As for ‘freeing the world from communism’, well, a majority of people in most eastern European countries now thinks they were better off under communism, and the collapse of the Soviet Union resulted in probably the second biggest economic and humanitarian disaster in modern peacetime history (HIV in Africa was probably the biggest), so you’ll excuse me for not considering that a moral triumph either. You do realize, right, that the Soviet Union had a higher median income growth than the United States during your buddy Reagan’s first term? Cite?? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/479 "2016-06-04T17:33:45Z")
_Pravda_. Russian for “Fox News”. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/480 "2016-06-04T18:43:08Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Morality is nothing but public opinion. > > Cite?? Cite to which claim? If it’s the one about median income growth, I actually have to amend that slightly, I was working with an error regarding American median income. 1980-1985 was, I guess, a decent period for the US economy and median income grew at 1% per year (from here: [Real Median Personal Income in the United States (MEPAINUSA672N) | FRED | St. Louis Fed](https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/MEPAINUSA672N)). However, Soviet annual median income growth in the early 1980s (which was supposed to represent the _worst_ of the ‘stagnation era’) was higher than median income growth in the United States during the whole 1975-1985 decade (0.2% per year) and it was also higher than median income growth in the United States over the 30 years since 1975 (0.6%). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286.md?page=25)