# Obama and Divisiveness **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 8, 2016, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286 "2016-03-08T15:38:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/481 "2016-06-04T18:47:48Z")
As to Soviet median income growth, I infer that from two things: 1. Soviet GNP grew at 1.8% a year in both the 1975-1980 and 1980-1985 periods, according to CIA numbers. Population was growing at about 0.95% a year, so that works out to 0.85% growth per year in _average_ income. > **[Era of Stagnation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Era_of_Stagnation)** > > First, then General Secretary of the CPSU1964–1982 > Brezhnev Era > Foreign policy 1. Economic inequality decline in the Soviet Union in both the late 1970s and early 1980s (see here: [Ayn Stalin: Soviet Inequalities In 1929-1954](http://akarlin.com/2012/06/ayn-stalin/) and M. Alexeev and C. Gaddy, 1992, “Income distribution in the USSR in the 1990s”) so the median had to be increasing _at least as_ fast as the mean, I…e 0.85% per year was the _minimum_ rate of increase. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/482 "2016-06-04T19:36:31Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Cite to which claim? it is very evidently for your assertion about the Soviet period popularity among the Eastern Europeans. [From this Pew survey of 2009, this is not a true claim for most of the Eastern europe](http://www.pewglobal.org/2009/11/02/end-of-communism-cheered-but-now-with-more-reservations/), perhaps there is the newer data. It is true of the Russians, who have the empire nostalgie. > [@](#): > > If it’s the one about median income growth, I actually have to amend that slightly, I was working with an error regarding American median income. 1980-1985 was, I guess, a decent period for the US economy and median income grew at 1% per year (from here: [Real Median Personal Income in the United States (MEPAINUSA672N) | FRED | St. Louis Fed](https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/MEPAINUSA672N)). However, Soviet annual median income growth in the early 1980s (which was supposed to represent the _worst_ of the ‘stagnation era’) was higher than median income growth in the United States during the whole 1975-1985 decade (0.2% per year) and it was also higher than median income growth in the United States over the 30 years since 1975 (0.6%). This of course is an eccentric comparison, the archival data indicate very clearly the soviet economy falling into deeper and deeper dysfunction, the post soviet collapse being the removal of a masque. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Cite?? he is a Soviet apologist who likes to pretend the soviet system operated well. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/483 "2016-06-04T20:13:26Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > As to Soviet median income growth, I infer that from two things: > > 1. Soviet GNP grew at 1.8% a year in both the 1975-1980 and 1980-1985 periods, according to CIA numbers. Population was growing at about 0.95% a year, so that works out to 0.85% growth per year in _average_ income. > > [Era of Stagnation - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Era_of_Stagnation) > > 1. Economic inequality decline in the Soviet Union in both the late 1970s and early 1980s (see here: [http://akarlin.com/2012/06/ayn-stalin/](http://akarlin.com/2012/06/ayn-stalin/) and M. Alexeev and C. Gaddy, 1992, “Income distribution in the USSR in the 1990s”) so the median had to be increasing _at least as_ fast as the mean, I…e 0.85% per year was the _minimum_ rate of increase. amazingly, I find my self agreeing with Ramira on: [QUOTE=Ramira] he is a Soviet apologist who likes to pretend the soviet system operated well. [/QUOTE] Umm communism killed 100 million people. It was evil. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/484 "2016-06-04T20:38:56Z")
It’s fairly easy to get good economic growth if you kill off the surplus population. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/485 "2016-06-04T23:08:32Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The US is exceptional. Not because of our power, but because of our liberty. Other countries are free today, but no country codifies freedom or makes it as much a part of the culture as we do. For other countries, democracy and freedom “work”, and if one day they don’t seem to be working they will gladly turn back to despots and kings. Which is the driving force among a number of disaffected people supporting Trump’s demagoguery. Your point only indicates that the U.S. has been lucky enough to avoid the phenomenon prior to 2016, not that the U.S. cannot fall prey to the same forces. We have already dallied with such errors as early as 1798 and 1917/1918, (and danced along its edge throughout the nasty silliness of the Red Scare). ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/486 "2016-06-05T18:31:29Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Morality is nothing but public opinion. Tell that to Immanuel Kant. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286/487 "2016-06-05T18:37:09Z")
I Kant. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-divisiveness/748286.md?page=24)