# Obama and Iran: The 400 million was for prisoner release **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 18, 2016, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-iran-the-400-million-was-for-prisoner-release/763240 "2016-08-18T23:36:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-iran-the-400-million-was-for-prisoner-release/763240/41 "2016-08-19T17:01:38Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > But we’ll see. If Iran gets nukes in the next few years, I’ll concede that you might have been right. If they don’t, will you concede that you were wrong? You can concede now unless you doubt Iran wants a nuclear weapon. Iran and North Korea signed an agreement in 2012. Anything Iran claims to have given up is sitting in NK waiting for money. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-iran-the-400-million-was-for-prisoner-release/763240/42 "2016-08-19T17:21:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Right before the Iranian revolution (in the late 70s), the Iranian government purchased weapons from us, sending over $400m. Before we delivered weapons, the revolution happened, and relations were cut off. We never delivered the weapons, but we kept the money. > [@leftfield6](#): > > [ol] > [li]We agreed to sell them a bunch of military hardware, planes mostly IIRC.[/li][li]They paid us in advance of receiving the goods.[/li][li]They had a regime turnover, we didn’t like the new leaders.[/li][li]We said “Hey no planes for you, but we will hang on to your money”[/li][/ol] Excellent, Thank you. It sounds like making the return of the captives a contingency was smart. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-iran-the-400-million-was-for-prisoner-release/763240/43 "2016-08-19T17:25:23Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You can concede now unless you doubt Iran wants a nuclear weapon. I doubt they want one enough to risk greater sanctions and possibly war. What they want most is to have no sanctions and regular trade with the rest of the world. But the conditions of the deal make getting a nuke impossible for Iran for over a decade, according to the experts. Without the deal, it’d be possible within a few years. If they don’t acquire a nuclear weapon in the next 5 years, will you concede that the deal might have been a good idea? Or do the events of the future not matter as to your opinion of this deal? I always wonder if people so strongly critical of a particular politician ever consider that they might be wrong. Are you one of those folks that’s absolutely 100% certain, or is there a bit of possibility within you that you might be wrong about this? For example: I think it’s possible Obama’s wrong, but considering all the data I’ve seen it looks like the best deal possible. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-iran-the-400-million-was-for-prisoner-release/763240/44 "2016-08-19T18:02:48Z")
I agree with the “It’s not a ransom if it was their money” argument. That said, if I was ever personally being held hostage by a foreign nation or Somali pirates or terrorists, I’d really appreciate it if someone could just pay the ransom. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-iran-the-400-million-was-for-prisoner-release/763240/45 "2016-08-19T18:42:10Z")
I wonder what is the percentage of people who are ragging on Obama for dealing with terrorists for the release of hostages were among those people who were ragging on Obama 6 months ago because Obama didn’t include negotiations about the hostages in the Nuclear deal. Whether or not we should deal with hostage takers is not actually relevant, all that is relevant is that whatever Obama decided to do is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-iran-the-400-million-was-for-prisoner-release/763240/46 "2016-08-19T19:02:12Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > The $400M was money _we already owed them_. What? The payment terms were lump sum payment 37 years later? Clearly there has been a dispute over whether the US owed Iran anything. We hadn’t paid them, and it wasn’t because of some agreed payment plan. This ransom payment disguised as a settlement of a longstanding dispute, was the bargaining chip to get them to release the hostages. But wait, there were two different groups handling the negotiations. Both of which required the approval of POTUS. Hmmmmmm??? I got no problem with how it all fell out…but let’s not fool ourselves that anything else happened here. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-iran-the-400-million-was-for-prisoner-release/763240/47 "2016-08-19T19:50:32Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > What? The payment terms were lump sum payment 37 years later? > > Clearly there has been a dispute over whether the US owed Iran anything. We hadn’t paid them, and it wasn’t because of some agreed payment plan. This ransom payment disguised as a settlement of a longstanding dispute, was the bargaining chip to get them to release the hostages. . . . > > I got no problem with how it all fell out…but let’s not fool ourselves that anything else happened here. Let us just review some facts. After the revolution in Iran, the American hostages were released in 1981 pursuant to the Algiers Accords. To put it simply, the Accords are a voluntary agreement between the two countries to stop fucking with each other. For example, potential lawsuits between the two countries were essentially voided and instead, a court of arbitration was set up. This tribunal has resolved thousands of claims by private American citizens, with the total amount awarded to U.S. individuals being about [$2.5 billion.](http://www.state.gov/s/l/3199.htm) Claims between the governments have been on the slow track, obviously. Iran was seeking $10 billion from the U.S. pursuant to this legal process. The U.S. has agreed to settle these claims for 17% of the amount sought by Iran. The $400 million is one installment of those payments. Some, including posters in this thread, have basically asserted that the U.S. should not have paid the money under any circumstances. Is the U.S. really supposed to be the party that says, “Screw you, independent international judicial panel, we’re breaking our international agreements because we don’t like your impartial decisions that we’ve been abiding by for thirty-five years!” ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-iran-the-400-million-was-for-prisoner-release/763240/48 "2016-08-19T20:18:37Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Is the U.S. really supposed to be the party that says, “Screw you, independent international judicial panel, we’re breaking our international agreements because we don’t like your impartial decisions that we’ve been abiding by for thirty-five years!” Oh, I must have missed the part where the international judicial panel declared a judgment on this. Wait… The reason the US never paid Iran, is that they felt they had good legal standing not to. The only thing that changed recently, is that it was a convenient mechanism to facilitate the payment for the release of the hostages. Why would the settlement of an international declaration need to be paid in cash currency? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-iran-the-400-million-was-for-prisoner-release/763240/49 "2016-08-19T20:31:03Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Why would the settlement of an international declaration need to be paid in cash currency? Because Iran is cut off from international banking and accepting, much less converting and using, ‘electronic’ cash is very difficult. This isn’t the Lindbergh baby – the reason I’d ask you for a bag of cash for a ransom is because I, as a regular guy, can’t go cash a check (and wait for it to clear) for my kidnapping ransoms. That doesn’t apply to nation states where they can send money through the system. If Iran was able to just take a wire payment, we’d have sent one rather than dicking around with pallets of Euros. It’s not as though we sent cash because Iran was afraid that we’d have them arrested at the First National Bank cashing their $400m check. The cash angle is irrelevant. $400m is $400m whether it’s in cash, wired or gold bars. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-iran-the-400-million-was-for-prisoner-release/763240/50 "2016-08-19T20:36:37Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > B > The cash angle is irrelevant. $400m is $400m whether it’s in cash, wired or gold bars. cash can’t be tracked electronically. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-iran-the-400-million-was-for-prisoner-release/763240/51 "2016-08-19T20:43:06Z")
PayPal fees way too high. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-iran-the-400-million-was-for-prisoner-release/763240/52 "2016-08-19T20:58:46Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > cash can’t be tracked electronically. Oh know! A country with a GDP of a trillion dollars might have some untraceable cash! ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-iran-the-400-million-was-for-prisoner-release/763240/53 "2016-08-19T21:37:39Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > The reason the US never paid Iran, is that they felt they had good legal standing not to. The only thing that changed recently, is that it was a convenient mechanism to facilitate the payment for the release of the hostages. What was the “good legal standing” not to settle the lawsuit? And how about some cites for your assertions? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-iran-the-400-million-was-for-prisoner-release/763240/54 "2016-08-19T21:58:52Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > It’s money we owed them anyway. More accurately, it was _their_ money. If anything, we placed conditions on them getting their own money back; _they_ were the ones paying a ransom. It’s a stupid, non-story. This, and thank you! We didn’t pay money to get hostages freed; we had the option not to pay money, already due and waiting to be paid, if the other guys kept the prisoners. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-iran-the-400-million-was-for-prisoner-release/763240/55 "2016-08-19T22:02:26Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > The cash angle is irrelevant. $400m is $400m whether it’s in cash, wired or gold bars. Not really, sending Iran US dollars is a violation of US law. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-iran-the-400-million-was-for-prisoner-release/763240/56 "2016-08-19T22:04:44Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > What was the “good legal standing” not to settle the lawsuit? And how about some cites for your assertions? The fact that it hadn’t been paid in over three decades. You think this demand from Iran had been lost in some in-box for the last 30 something years, and someone from the Obama administration just found it, and said, “Hey, we owe them this money and it needs to be paid.” ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-iran-the-400-million-was-for-prisoner-release/763240/57 "2016-08-19T22:08:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Oh know! A country with a GDP of a trillion dollars might have some untraceable cash! yes, $400 million. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-iran-the-400-million-was-for-prisoner-release/763240/58 "2016-08-19T22:12:03Z")
When the revolution occurred it wasn’t like a corporate takeover where the Shah got his shares bought out and all of the assets and obligations of the State transferred to the new government. It was a new regime, a new government, for all practical purposes a _new State_. Which the US was not aligned with. This was the foundation for which the US had refused to return the $400 million. It’s convenient now for the administration to say that this tribunal was going to judge in favor of Iran and many times more than $1.7 billion, but those are self serving statements. Again, I got no problems with how this played out. The hostages came home. The political theater is just tiring. Especially from the _transparent_ administration. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-iran-the-400-million-was-for-prisoner-release/763240/59 "2016-08-19T23:37:30Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > The fact that it hadn’t been paid in over three decades. You think this demand from Iran had been lost in some in-box for the last 30 something years, and someone from the Obama administration just found it, and said, “Hey, we owe them this money and it needs to be paid.” The workload of the tribunal is expected to last another seventy years. Yes, seventy years. All private claims were prioritized and finished in the 2000s or thereabouts. The intergovernmental claims were delayed until private claims were resolved. So, you’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-iran-the-400-million-was-for-prisoner-release/763240/60 "2016-08-20T04:20:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > cash can’t be tracked electronically. We’re paying to Iran. We know where it’s going – into Iran’s coffers > [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Not really, sending Iran US dollars is a violation of US law. If we were sending it via the banks, we’d route it through Europe anyway same as we did with the cash. Again: no difference. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-iran-the-400-million-was-for-prisoner-release/763240.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-iran-the-400-million-was-for-prisoner-release/763240.md?page=4)