# Obama and Reverend Wright? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 21, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-reverend-wright/603641 "2011-11-21T14:03:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Parthol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/dec6dc/32.png) [@Parthol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Parthol)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-reverend-wright/603641/21 "2011-11-21T18:46:00Z")
“Person X is an important person in my life, and my spiritual adviser” is not equivalent to “I believe and agree with everything X has ever said, especially the more inflammatory stuff.” But lots of folks tried to make out like it was, and thus there was a big kerfuffle about it. That’s my take, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-reverend-wright/603641/22 "2011-11-21T18:53:54Z")
> [@Parthol](#): > > “Person X is an important person in my life, and my spiritual adviser” > > is not equivalent to > > “I believe and agree with everything X has ever said, especially the more inflammatory stuff.” > > But lots of folks tried to make out like it was, and thus there was a big kerfuffle about it. That’s my take, anyway. The point was Obama chose that person as a spiritual adviser, and maintained a close relationship despite his inflammatory beliefs. This isn’t like having a racist grandmother. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-reverend-wright/603641/23 "2011-11-21T18:56:29Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > **gonzo** , do you ever post anything that you didn’t pull out of your ass? This kind of comment is better suited for the Pit. Please dial it back. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-reverend-wright/603641/24 "2011-11-21T18:57:59Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > **gonzo** , do you ever post anything that you didn’t pull out of your ass? > > Regards, > Shodan Not unexpected from a blind righty ]like you. Info plus Obama’s own words don’t matter as much as your unfounded beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-reverend-wright/603641/25 "2011-11-21T19:17:21Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > **gonzo** , do you ever post anything that you didn’t pull out of your ass? Which do you find more amazing-that **gonzomax** did such an incredible job with that fake Obama article, or that he fooled the Huffington Post into publishing it? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-reverend-wright/603641/26 "2011-11-21T19:24:06Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Not unexpected from a blind righty ]like you. Info plus Obama’s own words don’t matter as much as your unfounded beliefs. **gonzomax** , I agree that **Shodan** was out of line, but you have been warned for this over and over again and I just gave you a mod note about personal comments yesterday. I’m giving you a warning this time, and the staff will discuss your posting privileges. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-reverend-wright/603641/27 "2011-11-21T19:34:49Z")
I withdraw the remark and apologize to **gonzomax** and to the boards. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-reverend-wright/603641/28 "2011-11-21T19:43:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Which do you find more amazing-that **gonzomax** did such an incredible job with that fake Obama article, or that he fooled the Huffington Post into publishing it? Please quote the parts of the article showing that Obama was not really influenced by Wright, and that Obama only said he was to curry favor with religious people. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-reverend-wright/603641/29 "2011-11-21T21:34:46Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Wright did what preachers should do: speak what he believes to be the truth regardless if it’s popular or not. None of the Biblical prophets were sent to tell the people that everything was just peachy, nor should modern-day clergy. So if the US is causing pain and suffering or not doing enough to end it, then perhaps an appropriate thing for him to say was indeed “God damn America.” It may not fit with the “Rah! Rah! USA! USA!” chant that you might get from right wing preachers, but in my opinion it’s more in keeping with the teachings of Christ. Another way to look at it is that some voters want their President to be “Cheerleader in Chief”, with an optimistic outlook about the country and it’s future. While Rev. Wright is free to hold his views and express them, few people would be comfortable electing a man to the Office of the President who shared the view that the country aught to be damned to hell, even if figuratively. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-reverend-wright/603641/30 "2011-11-21T21:37:14Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Another way to look at it is that some voters want their President to be “Cheerleader in Chief”, with an optimistic outlook about the country and it’s future. > > While Rev. Wright is free to hold his views and express them, few people would be comfortable electing a man to the Office of the President who shared the view that the country aught to be damned to hell, even if figuratively. Wright no more ran for office than his namesake prophet. If you want a cheerleader that says the US can do no wrong and someone who has no problem with torture and waging war, there are quite a few right wing preachers to choose from. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-reverend-wright/603641/31 "2011-11-21T21:38:47Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Wright no more ran for office than his namesake prophet. If you want a cheerleader that says the US can do no wrong and someone who has no problem with torture and waging war, there are quite a few right wing preachers to choose from. Can you name a President who was elected while being a “gloomy gus”? ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-reverend-wright/603641/32 "2011-11-21T21:56:35Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Very little ultimately came of it because the voters seemed to decide that a church-goer shouldn’t be held responsible for all of the things said by the pastor (or, alternatively, some voters probably agreed with some of the things that Wright said). The media ignored the story for over a year until, finally, they could not ignore it any longer. Of course they quickly determined there was nothing to see there and moved on after Obama’s enlightening lecture on race relations. Contrast that with how quickly the media jumped on Perry for a comment that some pastor who supports Perry made about Mormons. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-reverend-wright/603641/33 "2011-11-22T03:09:17Z")
Here’s the short segment from the 40 minute speech. It wasn’t hard to find. I figure it might as well be examined, since we’re talking about it. [http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/03/21/the-full-story-behind-wright’s-“god-damn-america”-sermon/](http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/03/21/the-full-story-behind-wright%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%9Cgod-damn-america%E2%80%9D-sermon/) > [@](#): > > ``` > “And the United States of America government, when it came to treating her citizens of Indian descent, she failed. She put them on reservations." > > “When it came to putting her citizens of Japanese descent fairly, she failed. She put them in interment prison camps." > > “When it came to putting the citizens of African descent fairly, America failed. She put them in chains. The government put them on slave quarters. Put them on auction blocks. Put them in cotton fields. Put them in inferior schools. Put them in substandard housing. Put them scientific experiments. Put them in the lower paying jobs. Put them outside the equal protection of the law. Kept them out of their racist bastions of higher education, and locked them into positions of hopelessness and helplessness." > > “The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three strike law and then wants us to sing God Bless America. Naw, naw, naw. Not God Bless America. God Damn America! That’s in the Bible. For killing innocent people. God Damn America for treating us citizens as less than human. God Damn America as long as she tries to act like she is God and she is Supreme." > > “The United States government has failed the vast majority of her citizens of African descent. Think about this. Think about this. For every one Oprah, a billionaire, you’ve got 5 million blacks that are out of work. For every one Colin Powell, a millionaire, you’ve got 10 million blacks who cannot read. For every one Condi-Skeezer Rice, you’ve got 1 million in prison. For every one Tiger Woods, who needs to get beat at the Masters, with his Cablanasian hips, playing on a course that discriminates against women, God has this way of brining you up short when you get to big for your Cablanasian britches. For every one Tiger Woods, we’ve got 10,000 black kids who will never see a golf course. The United States government has failed the vast majority of her citizens of African descent.” > > “Tell your neighbor he’s (going to) help us one last time. Turn back and say forgive him for the God Damn, that’s in the Bible though. Blessings and curses is in the Bible. It’s in the Bible. > > "Where government fail, God never fails. When God says it, it’s done. God never fails. When God wills it, you better get out the way, cause God never fails. When God fixes it, oh believe me it’s fixed. God never fails. Somebody right now, you think you can’t make it, but I want you to know that you are more than a conqueror through Christ. You can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.” > > ``` “My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.” - Carl Schurz. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-reverend-wright/603641/34 "2011-11-22T04:52:30Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > The media ignored the story for over a year until, finally, they could not ignore it any longer. Of course they quickly determined there was nothing to see there and moved on after Obama’s enlightening lecture on race relations. > > Contrast that with how quickly the media jumped on Perry for a comment that some pastor who supports Perry made about Mormons. There was no Obama story until it was invented by Fox. The Perry story pretty much wrote itself. Obama’s relationship with Wright was one of congregant to pastor in a religiuous situation. As Obama noted, Wright led a large community in a threatened neighborhood while it engaged in Christian activities such as caring for the poor. I doubt that Obama was unaware of Wright’s political views, (although it is not difficult to believe that he probably did not hear them often–not many preachers spend more than a Sunday or two a year on politics, particularly national politics). On the other hand, as long as those political views remained a periodic expression to a local audience, he could pretty well ignore them. When Wright went public, nationally, after having a couple of his more fiery local declamations quoted (or misquoted) by Fox, Obama rejected those national attacks on the U.S. I have had pastors who were much more Right wing or Left wing than I am and I have had no trouble ignoring their politics while taking inspiration from their spiritual declarations. I am pretty sure that Obama is capable of doing the same thing. Perry’s relationship to Jeffress was a bit tenuous, as he has no long relationship with Jeffress. However, Jeffress introduced Perry to a religious group in front of the national press by proclaiming that Perry is a "born-again follower of the lord Jesus Christ,” strongly suggesting that Romney is not. He then noted, after the speech, that Mormonism is a cult. Perry immediately took the microphone after the introduction and did not bother saying anything to temper the claims (or the strong implication) that only he, and not Romney, was a born-again Christian. Following the speech, it took two tries for his press secretary to distance Perry from the claim that Mormonism is a cult. Given the context: a speech to the Religious Right, with a national audience, in the context of considering endorsements for presidential candidates, there is no way that the story would not have been played by all the news outlets–as even Fox did–in contrast to Wright’s earlier comments that were dragged out from Sunday sermons, some correctly, some edited for increased excitement value. When Wright did make a nationally recorded speech, the media reported it immediately, just as they did Jeffress. Had Perry immediately distanced himself from Jeffress’s remarks, the story would have gone in a completely different direction. The media never edited Perry’s remarks, (or those of Jeffress), for heightened inflammatory value. ---
**Author:** ![gatorslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gatorslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gatorslap)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-reverend-wright/603641/35 "2011-11-22T05:19:56Z")
I remember reading that someone from Us Weekly said that in light of the Jeremiah Wright controversy, the mainstream media no longer has any claim to journalistic superiority over tabloids. I don’t know if I’d go that far, but I agree with the sentiment. Much, much ado about nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-reverend-wright/603641/36 "2011-11-22T11:28:56Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The point is that he said “God damn America,” which is a curse. It literally means “God, send America to Hell.” Christians are not supposed to curse, only bless. See [James 3:9-12](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%203:9-12&version=NIV). I’ll quote verse 10 (NIV): “Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers and sisters, this should not be.” > > Now, in context, he is talking about teachers, but that’s exactly what the reverend is as a preacher. So there’s no way to argue it doesn’t apply to him. It’s fine for him to be unpatriotic. Heck, it’s fine for him to have problems with America. But it’s not okay to curse America, even if it was only rhetorical to contrast with “God bless America.” For the record: The James passage you linked to exhorts its audience not to curse human beings. But Wright, if he was cursing anything, was cursing a nation. Moreover, it’s not clear that Wright was cursing anything, since everything he said was conditional. (There’s an “as long as” clause after all the 'God damn America’s.) (Also, since it’s not clear that saying “Damn Y” is cursing Y. I’d need to know more about Greek to be able to judge whether James was talking about the act of saying “God will damn you” is a curse. I don’t really know what “cursing” is, Biblically speaking.) ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-reverend-wright/603641/37 "2011-11-22T12:19:55Z")
(Also, to my knowledge no one, at least on reflection, thinks that it’s unpatriotic to exhort one’s nation to live up to the ideals one believes applies to it.) ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-reverend-wright/603641/38 "2011-11-22T12:43:14Z")
Wasn’t Wright waiting in the wings to introduce Obama at a speech when at the last minute he was cancelled because of the non-story? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-reverend-wright/603641/39 "2011-11-22T14:01:52Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > Wasn’t Wright waiting in the wings to introduce Obama at a speech when at the last minute he was cancelled because of the non-story? … and? What does that have to do with, well, anything? It _was_ a non-story, until the Republicans (and that damned _Liberal Media_!!!) pushed it to the forefront. Tell me- do \*you \*think Obama hates America? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-reverend-wright/603641/40 "2011-11-22T14:35:11Z")
I’m truly glad to have this issue re-hashed again, because now, in light of the past few years of the Obama administration, it has become obviously clear that Obama is a virulent anti-American white hater who is trying his best to destroy both the Jews and America. If only we had heeded the advice of the right wing … [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-reverend-wright/603641.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-reverend-wright/603641.md?page=3)