# Obama and Rick Warren. Does this bother you? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 18, 2008, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-rick-warren-does-this-bother-you/477665 "2008-12-18T00:51:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-rick-warren-does-this-bother-you/477665/1 "2008-12-18T00:51:34Z")
Rick Warren has been picked to give the invocation at Obama’s inauguration. Many liberals are angry about it. They’re wrong. We’ve spent the last 8 years with, “You’re either with us or against us” type politics. Obama doesn’t agree with everything that Rick Warren stands for. Neither do I. But, I’m tired of making everyone pass a litmus test. Rick Warren’s debate, which probably favored McCain, was a spotlight. McCain lost and Obama won. Obama is doing exactly what I want him to. He’s reaching out to those who he can work with. Maya Angelou didn’t exactly go downhill after being featured at Bill Clinton’s inauguration in 1992. This is a smart move for Obama. He really doesn’t want to divide the United States into red states and blue states. Rick Warren may be the most influential pastor who conservatives respect that Obama can work with. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-rick-warren-does-this-bother-you/477665/2 "2008-12-18T01:00:16Z")
He is also putting in a Republican for Transportation. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-rick-warren-does-this-bother-you/477665/3 "2008-12-18T01:00:20Z")
I have absolutely no problem with this. While I don’t agree with quite a bit Warren says, the last thing we need is a continuation of the politics of ideological purity that so badly damaged the credibility and functionality of the Bush administration. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-rick-warren-does-this-bother-you/477665/4 "2008-12-18T01:19:31Z")
Believe me, Warren’s gonna get way more crap for this from the Right than Obama will from anyone. I hope he doesn’t fold & withdraw but I doubt he would. I say good for them both. I like & agree with Rick on most things, I like Obama but disagree greatly with some things. But hey- can’t we all just get along? _G_ ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-rick-warren-does-this-bother-you/477665/5 "2008-12-18T02:33:16Z")
Eh Obama picking a pro-life preacher for the inauguration doesn’t really say that much. If anything, it’s tokenism. I wouldn’t read too much into it either way. ---
**Author:** ![Mumio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@Mumio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mumio)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-rick-warren-does-this-bother-you/477665/6 "2008-12-18T02:53:01Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Rick Warren has been picked to give the invocation at Obama’s inauguration. Many liberals are angry about it. > > They’re wrong. > > We’ve spent the last 8 years with, “You’re either with us or against us” type politics. Obama doesn’t agree with everything that Rick Warren stands for. Neither do I. But, I’m tired of making everyone pass a litmus test. > > Rick Warren’s debate, which probably favored McCain, was a spotlight. McCain lost and Obama won. > > Obama is doing exactly what I want him to. He’s reaching out to those who he can work with. Maya Angelou didn’t exactly go downhill after being featured at Bill Clinton’s inauguration in 1992. > > This is a smart move for Obama. He really doesn’t want to divide the United States into red states and blue states. Rick Warren may be the most influential pastor who conservatives respect that Obama can work with. I agree with what you’ve said here. So far, I like what I’ve been seeing our next President do. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-rick-warren-does-this-bother-you/477665/7 "2008-12-18T03:07:46Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Rick Warren has been picked to give the invocation at Obama’s inauguration. Many liberals are angry about it. Given that so far this liberal - pinko-commie board thinks it’s a pretty OK idea, do you have a cite for the “many liberals” part? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-rick-warren-does-this-bother-you/477665/8 "2008-12-18T03:21:16Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Given that so far this liberal - pinko-commie board thinks it’s a pretty OK idea, do you have a cite for the “many liberals” part? [Cite](http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/12/top_liberal_group_hammers_obam.php) as requested ([among](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1208/16693.html) [multiple](http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/12/ugh.html) [others](http://www.americablog.com/2008/12/obama-picks-homophobe-pro-prop.html)) Obama’s no fool. Getting his agenda done needs some cross-over votes if for no other reason than that he cannot depend on complete support from all of the Democrats. These symbolic gestures that reach to power bases that are not generally supportive of many things on his to-do list will have major pay-offs in the next several months - much more than upsetting a few liberals will cost him. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-rick-warren-does-this-bother-you/477665/9 "2008-12-18T03:26:20Z")
The folks over at Daily Kos seem rather furious about it. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-rick-warren-does-this-bother-you/477665/10 "2008-12-18T03:36:11Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > [Cite](http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/12/top_liberal_group_hammers_obam.php) as requested ([among](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1208/16693.html) [multiple](http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/12/ugh.html) [others](http://www.americablog.com/2008/12/obama-picks-homophobe-pro-prop.html)) > > Obama’s no fool. Getting his agenda done needs some cross-over votes if for no other reason than that he cannot depend on complete support from all of the Democrats. These symbolic gestures that reach to power bases that are not generally supportive of many things on his to-do list will have major pay-offs in the next several months - much more than upsetting a few liberals will cost him. Hmmmm I guess I could have read our very own pit thread as well. I agree with your comments **DSeid**. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-rick-warren-does-this-bother-you/477665/11 "2008-12-18T03:41:08Z")
I can understand why some people are upset and correctly point out that Warren doesn’t represent the views they voted on. Personally, I think it’s a great idea to demonstrate that he is the president of all the people, even the ones he has disagreements with, and symbolic of the fact that we as a nation need to encourage communication and cooperation between groups that disagree. ---
**Author:** ![BrassyPhrase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea666f/32.png) [@BrassyPhrase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrassyPhrase)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-rick-warren-does-this-bother-you/477665/12 "2008-12-18T04:49:35Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Rick Warren has been picked to give the invocation at Obama’s inauguration. Many liberals are angry about it. > > They’re wrong. > > \ I’m not thrilled with Rick Warren at all, but (And here’s the BUT) I do like what Obama is doing with the idea a lot of different viewpoints having a say. It’s much like what I have with friends at work. (It’s TX, I’m the keerazy liberal here, but I’m a moderate almost everywhere else in the country (and in parts of Texas–HI Austin! I’m looking at you!) We do not agree about many topics but we listen to each other and learn. I understand what’s he’s doing in a way. People that one can deal with, not idealogues, not extremists. ---
**Author:** ![Freejooky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ba8739/32.png) [@Freejooky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freejooky)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-rick-warren-does-this-bother-you/477665/13 "2008-12-18T04:57:42Z")
Rick Warren greatly concerns me. > [@](#): > > Last night, on Fox News, Sean Hannity insisted that United States needs to “take out” Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Warren said he agreed. Hannity asked, “Am I advocating something dark, evil or something righteous?” Warren responded, “Well, actually, the Bible says that evil cannot be negotiated with. It has to just be stopped… In fact, that is the legitimate role of government. The Bible says that God puts government on earth to punish evildoers. Not good-doers. Evildoers.” Horseshit doctrine and extremely irresponsible. Fuck that guy. [More if you can stomach it.](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_12/015925.php) The guy’s one step away from Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell IMHO, a dangerous ideologue with bad doctrine preaching hatred. He’s the last thing that American Christianity needs as its public herald, and I’m frankly disappointed that people aren’t being harder on him. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-rick-warren-does-this-bother-you/477665/14 "2008-12-18T06:08:35Z")
> [@Freejooky](#): > > Rick Warren greatly concerns me. > > Horseshit doctrine and extremely irresponsible. Fuck that guy. > > [More if you can stomach it.](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_12/015925.php) > > The guy’s one step away from Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell IMHO, a dangerous ideologue with bad doctrine preaching hatred. He’s the last thing that American Christianity needs as its public herald, and I’m frankly disappointed that people aren’t being harder on him. Next thing you know a U.S. President will be talking about defending “Christian civilization” against a “Pagan nation with a Pagan church”. Oh- that was FDR talking about our war against the Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-rick-warren-does-this-bother-you/477665/15 "2008-12-18T06:31:04Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > This is a smart move for Obama. He really doesn’t want to divide the United States into red states and blue states. Rick Warren may be the most influential pastor who conservatives respect that Obama can work with. Rick Warren out-and-out lied about Proposition 8, claiming that the legalization of gay marriage would infringe on his freedom of speech. People like this do not act in good-faith. There is no point in reaching out to them. You cannot work with them, because they see no problem in lying to achieve their goals. And I’m sick of constantly being told by the Democratic leadership that I have to reach out to people who make no attempt to reach out to me. Rick Warren knows full well that there are plenty of liberals, Democrats and/or gay-marriage supporters who will defend his right to preach whatever he wants to from his pulpit. Instead of reaching out to us on this point of common ground, he demonizes us by claiming we’re trying to take away his right to free speech. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-rick-warren-does-this-bother-you/477665/16 "2008-12-18T06:49:12Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Next thing you know a U.S. President will be talking about defending “Christian civilization” against a “Pagan nation with a Pagan church”. > Oh- that was FDR talking about our war against the Nazis. And?? ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-rick-warren-does-this-bother-you/477665/17 "2008-12-18T07:13:46Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > Rick Warren out-and-out lied about Proposition 8, claiming that the legalization of gay marriage would infringe on his freedom of speech. People like this do not act in good-faith. There is no point in reaching out to them. You cannot work with them, because they see no problem in lying to achieve their goals. I agree that there are people so far over the edge that there’s no point in trying to work with them but I have no problem with this. Warren is given no power and it enhances Obama’s Uniter Not a Divider credentials. The real test will be in how he spends that political capital. So long as he stands against the shortsighted and meanspirited GOP agenda I won’t worry about publicity stunts. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-rick-warren-does-this-bother-you/477665/18 "2008-12-18T07:53:56Z")
> [@2sense](#): > > I agree that there are people so far over the edge that there’s no point in trying to work with them but I have no problem with this. Warren is given no power and it enhances Obama’s Uniter Not a Divider credentials. The real test will be in how he spends that political capital. So long as he stands against the shortsighted and meanspirited GOP agenda I won’t worry about publicity stunts. From a purely pragmatic and cosmetic point-of-view, I wouldn’t normally have a problem with this. And this specific act, by itself, is fairly small beans. But it’s part-and-parcel of the long-term trend of Democrats reaching out to and coddling the most destructive elements of the right wing with one hand, while they swat away pretty much everyone who makes up the Democratic base with the other. It’s part of the reason the US is in the mess it’s in now, and I really wish the Democratic Party would at least try to move away from these radicals, rather than legitimizing them over and over. Edited to Add: I’m not going to break from Obama over this. But it’s just another thing in a long line of things that disgust me about the Democratic Party. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-rick-warren-does-this-bother-you/477665/19 "2008-12-18T08:14:41Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Next thing you know a U.S. President will be talking about defending “Christian civilization” against a “Pagan nation with a Pagan church”. > Oh- that was FDR talking about our war against the Nazis. You’re misinterpreting what he said. He was suggesting that Nazism was like a religious fervor. Embraced with the passion of a religion. I don’t believe he mentions Christianity in the entire chat. > **[Radio Address on the 150th Anniversary of the Ratification of the Bill of...](https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/radio-address-the-150th-anniversary-the-ratification-the-bill-rights)** > [@fdr](#): > > The propositions they advanced to take the place of Jefferson’s inalienable rights were these: > > That the individual human being has no rights whatsoever in himself and by virtue of his humanity; > > That the individual human being has no right to a soul of his own, or a mind of his own, or a tongue of his own, or a trade of his own; or even to live where he pleases or to marry the woman he loves; > > That his only duty is the duty of obedience, not to his God, not to his conscience, but to Adolf Hitler; and that his only value is his value, not as a man, but as a unit of the Nazi state. > > To Hitler the ideal of the people, as we conceive it—the free, self-governing, and responsible people—is incomprehensible. The people, to Hitler, are “the masses” and the highest human idealism is, in his own words, that a man should wish to become “a dust particle” of the order “of force” which is to shape the universe. > > To Hitler, the government, as we conceive it, is an impossible conception. The government to him is not the servant and the instrument of the people but their absolute master and the dictator of their every act. > > To Hitler the church, as we conceive it, is a monstrosity to be destroyed by every means at his command. The Nazi church is to be the “National Church,” a pagan church, “absolutely and exclusively in the service of but one doctrine, one race, one Nation.” > > To Hitler, the freedom of men to think as they please and speak as they please and worship as they please is, of all things imaginable, most hateful and most desperately to be feared. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-rick-warren-does-this-bother-you/477665/20 "2008-12-18T08:31:31Z")
[http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=16166](http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=16166) “The preservation of these rights is vitally important now, not only to us who enjoy them—but to the whole future of Christian civilization…” Several Roosevelt speeches got mixed up in my memory. I thought he mentioned C’tian Civ in that one. Sorry. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-rick-warren-does-this-bother-you/477665.md?page=2)