# Obama and the Art of War? is he following Sun Tzu? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 3, 2008, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-art-of-war-is-he-following-sun-tzu/470815 "2008-11-03T03:54:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-art-of-war-is-he-following-sun-tzu/470815/21 "2008-11-03T20:01:54Z")
I’d rather he was a student of Mencius. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-art-of-war-is-he-following-sun-tzu/470815/22 "2008-11-03T20:11:32Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Agreed. I think Sun Tzu is incredibly over-rated. His “maxims” are so blindingly obvious. How do you say “Well, _duh_!” in Chinese? This thread prompted me to reread the Art of War since alot of it seems to have fallen out of memory. It’s amazing how many maxims Bush violated in Iraq. This is just from the first three chapters I’ve read so far. The jist of things that come to mind: don’t obliterate your target don’t get in a prolonged war think before you act Even if it is well duh stuff to you it isn’t to some people apparently. I don’t know if Obama is using the Art of War but I hope he is. It’d be nice to have a President not making 2,500 year old mistakes. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-art-of-war-is-he-following-sun-tzu/470815/23 "2008-11-03T20:17:21Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > I’d rather he was a student of Mencius. [snotty, pedantic sniff] Preceded him by a couple of hundred years. [/sps] ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-art-of-war-is-he-following-sun-tzu/470815/24 "2008-11-03T20:57:00Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Yeah, well basics have to be taught too. I never understood the concept of looking down on the 101 coursework. Everyone is a Freshman at some point. When Sun Tzu wrote it, it might not have been so blindingly obvious. It wasn’t obvious. It was written during the “Warring States” period of time. A Civil War that lasted a couple of **hundred** years. There’s a couple of other military/political works which came out of that time that are lesser known in the West that are equally as good. Nor should _The Art of War_ be considered “Freshman 101” reading, more like the hone one applies to their sword before going into battle. The “Powell Doctrine” of combat is simply Sun Tzu’s philosophy rephrased for modern times. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-art-of-war-is-he-following-sun-tzu/470815/25 "2008-11-03T21:02:30Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > It wasn’t obvious. It was written during the “Warring States” period of time. A Civil War that lasted a couple of **hundred** years. There’s a couple of other military/political works which came out of that time that are lesser known in the West that are equally as good. Nor should _The Art of War_ be considered “Freshman 101” reading, more like the hone one applies to their sword before going into battle. The “Powell Doctrine” of combat is simply Sun Tzu’s philosophy rephrased for modern times. Generally I should think that caring properly for a sword is part of the 101 course for a career swordsman. Regardless I’m not going to argue with you like we’re in disagreement. Sun Tzu’s work stands the test of time, and people still need to be taught it. If it were blindingly obvious even to a large minority of people, the world would be an incredibly different place. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-art-of-war-is-he-following-sun-tzu/470815/26 "2008-11-03T21:04:41Z")
> [@](#): > > More murky connections to foreigners eh? Sun Tzu. What kind of name is that, anyway? Aztec? The more I hear, the more I think this guy isn’t a real American. Well, last game I played, he turned out to be a Persian, but he fell under the sway of the mighty Russian empire in time, just like all the other Wonders. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-art-of-war-is-he-following-sun-tzu/470815/27 "2008-11-03T21:27:26Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Agreed. I think Sun Tzu is incredibly over-rated. His “maxims” are so blindingly obvious. How do you say “Well, _duh_!” in Chinese? Now that’s an interesting question. I suppose you’d say (in English phonetics) “dong ron le,” in a sarcastic tone. This has been another installment of answers to rhetorical questions. ---
**Author:** ![Can\_Handle\_the\_Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Can\_Handle\_the\_Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Can_Handle_the_Truth)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-art-of-war-is-he-following-sun-tzu/470815/28 "2008-11-04T03:30:05Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Agreed. I think Sun Tzu is incredibly over-rated. His “maxims” are so blindingly obvious. How do you say “Well, _duh_!” in Chinese? That’s what I thought when I read Newton’s three laws. Doesn’t make them any less world-changing. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-art-of-war-is-he-following-sun-tzu/470815/29 "2008-11-04T04:53:26Z")
> [@Can\_Handle\_the\_Truth](#): > > That’s what I thought when I read Newton’s three laws. Doesn’t make them any less world-changing. \ Well my personal world view changing moment with Newton was when I realized his Genius wasn’t figuring out something makes things fall down (which any idiot can figure out), it was figuring out that same something kept the moon in orbit. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-art-of-war-is-he-following-sun-tzu/470815/30 "2008-11-04T14:16:50Z")
I go fourth to battle! It’s voting time! ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-art-of-war-is-he-following-sun-tzu/470815/31 "2008-11-04T16:34:27Z")
pfff… Sun tzu. Call me when Obama starts quoting the Wu Tang Shaolin masters. Protect ya’ Neck indeed. Get that dolla, dolla bill, y’all! ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-art-of-war-is-he-following-sun-tzu/470815/32 "2008-11-04T22:50:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Agreed. I think Sun Tzu is incredibly over-rated. His “maxims” are so blindingly obvious. How do you say “Well, _duh_!” in Chinese? \*The art of war is deception. \*I’ve seen stratgists employ over three different objectives, some hidden, some open. or… Mission Accomplished. 😉 It’s not so obvious. Or is it? ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-art-of-war-is-he-following-sun-tzu/470815/33 "2008-11-04T23:33:52Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > I go fourth to battle! > > It’s voting time! Ok, I’ll go fifth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-art-of-war-is-he-following-sun-tzu/470815.md?page=1)