# Obama and The Pledge of Allegiance **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 23, 2008, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-pledge-of-allegiance/438875 "2008-02-23T19:55:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-pledge-of-allegiance/438875/1 "2008-02-23T19:55:31Z")
I was watching Bill Maher last night and one of the guests (I forget which one) claimed that Obama refuses, or had refused on one occasion, to say the PofA. Is there any truth in this? And does it matter. I doubt that I’d be able to vote for anyone who refuses to pledge allegiance to his own country. But, for now, I am more interested in the factual basis of the claim, if any exists. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-pledge-of-allegiance/438875/2 "2008-02-23T19:57:15Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] I was watching Bill Maher last night and one of the guests (I forget which one) claimed that Obama refuses, or had refused on one occasion, to say the PofA. Is there any truth in this? And does it matter. I doubt that I’d be able to vote for anyone who refuses to pledge allegiance to his own country. But, for now, I am more interested in the factual basis of the claim, if any exists. [/QUOTE] This [page](http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/2007/11/12/obama_is_a_patriot.php) discusses the origin of the rumor, and disputes it. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-pledge-of-allegiance/438875/3 "2008-02-23T19:58:23Z")
Obama has led the PoA in Senate. [Snopes](http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/anthem.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-pledge-of-allegiance/438875/4 "2008-02-23T20:05:02Z")
I was disappointed that Maher let Kingston spout this and several other bullshit claims unchallenged. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-pledge-of-allegiance/438875/5 "2008-02-23T20:06:58Z")
Yeah, I just searched around some myself. (Should have done that first.) It appears that the charge about the PofA is completely wrong. And even though the other candidates did have their hands over their hearts when they were on the stage singing the national anthem, there seems to be some leeway as to whether one need have their hand over their heart as they sing. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-pledge-of-allegiance/438875/6 "2008-02-23T20:08:03Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] I was disappointed that Maher let Kingston spout this and several other bullshit claims unchallenged. [/QUOTE] I was surprised at that, which is why I asked the question here. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-pledge-of-allegiance/438875/7 "2008-02-23T20:09:03Z")
How objective of Snopes to prominently show the picture, and the headline, and a big red bold “True”. :rolleyes: Screw that, I don’t hold my hand over my heart during the anthem, either, but instead clasp my hand together (although I usually do it behind my back, as I think it makes me look more proud) and take off my ball cap, if I’m wearing one. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-pledge-of-allegiance/438875/8 "2008-02-23T21:42:12Z")
A few inches above this thread is one that asks, **“What Tactics Will The GOP Use Against Obama?”** This is one answer. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-pledge-of-allegiance/438875/9 "2008-02-23T21:53:12Z")
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger] How objective of Snopes to prominently show the picture, and the headline, and a big red bold “True”. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Uh, objectively, it’s true: the picture shows him without his hand over his heart during the pledge. They specifically rebut the idea that he never salutes the flag and I think they handle it well. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-pledge-of-allegiance/438875/10 "2008-02-23T21:55:43Z")
I’ve seen that photo, and not only does Obama not have his hand over his heart, I didn’t hear a single one of those Democrats on stage even singing! Oh, wait, it’s a still picture. Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-pledge-of-allegiance/438875/11 "2008-02-23T21:58:39Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] Uh, objectively, it’s true: the picture shows him without his hand over his heart during the pledge. They specifically rebut the idea that he never salutes the flag and I think they handle it well. [/QUOTE] Sure. But you know as well as I do that a lot of people are going to look at the top of that page when linked to it from a glurged email, and say, “Snopes said everything this email said was true!”, without bothering to read the rest of the article. That’s why them being objective deserves a roll eyes. Sure, that’s what happened, but it doesn’t imply what the people linking to the page have been led to believe. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-pledge-of-allegiance/438875/12 "2008-02-23T23:02:27Z")
I think it’s clear that the claims about the PofA, etc, are much ado about squat. A Mod can close this thread when they get around to it. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-pledge-of-allegiance/438875/13 "2008-02-23T23:20:45Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] Uh, objectively, it’s true: the picture shows him without his hand over his heart during the **pledge**. They specifically rebut the idea that he never salutes the flag and I think they handle it well. [/QUOTE] Bolding mine. I just read this more carefully than I did the first time. He didn’t have his hand on his heart during the **anthem** , not the **pledge.** The article goes on to say that his grandfather taught him to cover your heart during the pledge, and sing during the national anthem. Your misunderstanding of what the picture depicts proves my earlier point. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-pledge-of-allegiance/438875/14 "2008-02-23T23:36:44Z")
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger] Bolding mine. I just read this more carefully than I did the first time. He didn’t have his hand on his heart during the **anthem** , not the **pledge.** The article goes on to say that his grandfather taught him to cover your heart during the pledge, and sing during the national anthem. Your misunderstanding of what the picture depicts proves my earlier point. [/QUOTE] Actually, it demonstrates my apathy: I stopped rising for the pledge when I was 13 and haven’t put any thought into this stuff since. It couldn’t be any less important to me. I should’ve read the piece more carefully, but Snopes states a very specific claim that is indeed backed up by the photo, and then detailed more fully in the article. The picture is real and shows what it purports to show; the implications some people draw from the picture is false. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-pledge-of-allegiance/438875/15 "2008-02-23T23:42:55Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] \the implications some people draw from the picture is false. [/QUOTE] Exactly. Snopes doesn’t help said implications by putting up a big huge “True” label on top of the page, instead of a “Neutral” label, since the answer isn’t “Yes”, but actually, “Yes, however”. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-pledge-of-allegiance/438875/16 "2008-02-23T23:44:39Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] Actually, it demonstrates my apathy: I stopped rising for the pledge when I was 13 and haven’t put any thought into this stuff since. It couldn’t be any less important to me. I should’ve read the piece more carefully, but Snopes states a very specific claim that is indeed backed up by the photo, and then detailed more fully in the article. The picture is real and shows what it purports to show; the implications some people draw from the picture is false. [/QUOTE] Too bad for you if you ever run for President, then, **Marley**. You’ve already lost **magellan01** ’s vote. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2008, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-pledge-of-allegiance/438875/17 "2008-02-24T00:13:57Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] I doubt that I’d be able to vote for anyone who refuses to pledge allegiance to his own country. [/QUOTE] I’d be happy to say the pledge of allegiance if you take “under God” out of it. Does that work for you? ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2008, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-pledge-of-allegiance/438875/18 "2008-02-24T01:54:32Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] I doubt that I’d be able to vote for anyone who refuses to pledge allegiance to his own country. [/QUOTE] How many other countries have a similar pledge to their flag? I seem to recall reading that this practice is not common elsewhere in the world. Does anyone know? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2008, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-pledge-of-allegiance/438875/19 "2008-02-24T02:12:28Z")
That’s okay, I don’t think **magellan01** is regisered to vote in any of those countries. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2008, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-pledge-of-allegiance/438875/20 "2008-02-24T02:13:48Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] I was disappointed that Maher let Kingston spout this and several other bullshit claims unchallenged. [/QUOTE] Maybe he heard it for the first time ? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-the-pledge-of-allegiance/438875.md?page=2)