# Obama at Notre Dame **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 17, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-at-notre-dame/496773 "2009-05-17T19:20:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-at-notre-dame/496773/61 "2009-05-18T04:13:10Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Eye for an eye? The Catholic church doctrine is governed by the words of Jesus, who rejected that Old Testament retribution and preached forgiveness: > [@](#): > > [Matthew 5:38-42](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%205:38-42;&version=31;) > > 38"You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[[g](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=5&version=31#fen-NIV-23273g)] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you." ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-at-notre-dame/496773/62 "2009-05-18T04:14:30Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Your ideas are disgusting. Expressing personal and ethical support for birth control would assuage not only your’s and **Dio** ’s views, but also the Catholic Church’s. While I’m pretty much against abortion (not 100% - abortion in the case of rape, incest, or the imminent death of the mother should absolutely be allowed), I am completely - 100% - in support of birth control. Whether that birth control is condoms, IUDs, vascectomies, or tubal ligations is irrelevant to me, and should be irrelevant to all. It is the painting of birth control as abortion that is disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-at-notre-dame/496773/63 "2009-05-18T04:15:11Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I’m in favor of abortion whenever and wherever the pregnant woman wants it and/or the treating physician deems it medically necessary, which is exactly the position of all good and decent people. So your ideas are creepy too. No decent person favors abortion. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-at-notre-dame/496773/64 "2009-05-18T04:15:24Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > No, the difference is that a fetus will certainly become a person. Not if it’s aborted. If it’s aborted, there never was a person, and there can’t be a victim. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-at-notre-dame/496773/65 "2009-05-18T04:17:43Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > So your ideas are creepy too. No decent person favors abortion. No decent person disputes a pregnant woman’s exclusive right to make the abortion decision. ---
**Author:** ![CyclopticXander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@CyclopticXander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CyclopticXander)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-at-notre-dame/496773/66 "2009-05-18T04:18:59Z")
I really hope more of my fellow liberals understand that Obama’s diplomatic approach to these issues only helps us. It is of course always a fine line, but this is one smart politician. Moves like this are gutsy, he shows his hand to the other side, and then he extends it in the most genuine of ways. It is very hard for anyone to walk away without at least respecting him, and getting the other side to like us first is half the battle. Look at all the latest polls, they show that the country is just a split as ever on the issues, but the vast majority of people really genuinely like Obama as an individual. Some may chalk it up to a honeymoon period, but it’s getting a little late for that and I really think his personality is more to credit. Now logic would have you believe that one should be far more concerned with a president’s actual political positions than some abstract likability factor, but keen political scientists such as yourself should know that’s not exactly how it plays out. How did Ronald Reagan win some of the biggest landslides in our history? It wasn’t because there weren’t any American liberals in the 80’s, it’s because we couldn’t help but like the dude. It’s cool for all of us to sit on the sidelines and be all ideologically pure, but we finally have a strong liberal president who really knows how to play the game to get results. He plays it cool and smart and subtle. This speech today was wonderful. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-at-notre-dame/496773/67 "2009-05-18T04:21:04Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Not if it’s aborted. If it’s aborted, there never was a person, and there can’t be a victim. I guess Jews/Blacks/Gays aren’t real people, either. So they aren’t victims, right? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-at-notre-dame/496773/68 "2009-05-18T04:23:13Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > I guess Jews/Blacks/Gays aren’t real people, either. So they aren’t victims, right? Not if they were aborted in the fetal stage. What is your point? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-at-notre-dame/496773/69 "2009-05-18T04:24:26Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Not if they were aborted in the fetal stage. What is your point? That no decent person is “pro-abortion”. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-at-notre-dame/496773/70 "2009-05-18T04:26:26Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > That no decent person is “pro-abortion”. Nevertheless, no decent person disputes a pregnant woman’s exclusive right to make the abortion decision. And, while economic conservatives sometimes have good arguments, religious/social conservatives deserve nothing but contempt and dismissal. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-at-notre-dame/496773/71 "2009-05-18T04:27:46Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > So your ideas are creepy too. No decent person favors abortion. No decent person wants to force little girls to have rape babies. My position is based purely on compassion. I want to reduce human suffering. Forcing women (or children) to carry pregnancies against their will inflicts human suffering. Allowing them to terminate those pregnancies does not. Embryos can’t suffer. By the way, when I say I thuink there should be more abortions, I’m not saying I want more unwanted pregnancies just for the sake of abortion, I’m saying that I wish a lot of women who carry pregnancies to term would terminate instead. I’m talking about women who carry pregnancies while poisoning their bodies with meth and crack and booze, then give birth to babies who are damaged from the chemicals, who suffer in agonizing pain from withdrawal, and who get treated like shit, neglected, abused, sometimes killed after they ARE born by their mothers," These are the same children who conservatives blow gaskets about when any suggestion is made that they should receive any public assistance or medical care. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-at-notre-dame/496773/72 "2009-05-18T04:31:08Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No decent person wants to force little girls to have rape babies. Yeah, right, most abortions are about rape babies. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-at-notre-dame/496773/73 "2009-05-18T04:35:00Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No it isn’t. This is fun. Nope. All murders are mortal sins. It’s irrelevant whether the murderer thinks the victim is “guilty” of something. Humans are forbidden by Christ to make judgements on who should live or die except when it’s necessary to protect the lives of one’s self or others. > > I think this is a distinction basically without a difference, The Pope is the official spokesperson for the Church and is Christ’s own delegated mouthpiece on Earth. By the way, [Pope digs Obama](http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1898756,00.html?xid=rss-mostpopular), Obama won the majority of the Catholic vote in the election and his current approval rating among Catholics is a gaudy [67%](http://www.gallup.com/poll/118120/Obama-Approval-High-Among-Muslims-Jews-Catholics.aspx). The small group of whinging, hypocritical, grandstanding, children who protested the President’s appearance today are out of step with their own Pope (Christ’s personal representative under the very doctrine they say they care so much about), and with the vast majority of their own co-believers. It’s fun how you pretend to know something. [This chapter of the Catechism](http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.htm)has a special section on abortion which, unlike “regular” muder carries also excommunication, meaning no every priest can forgive it. Out of step with their own Pope regarding abortion, yeah, right. You meant Iraq? Please produce the official document condemning the war as inherently immoral and commanding catholics to resist it, as they should with abortion. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-at-notre-dame/496773/74 "2009-05-18T04:37:00Z")
Caligula’s horse (who was never made a consul or a senator- that is legend) was named Incitatus. I think that would make a better user name, and that a typing horse would make more sense. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-at-notre-dame/496773/75 "2009-05-18T04:38:38Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > I guess Jews/Blacks/Gays aren’t real people, either. So they aren’t victims, right? Of course they’re real people. Why wouldn’t they be? How do you get that out of anything I said? If you’re talking about embryos and fetuses, then no, they’re not yet people. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-at-notre-dame/496773/76 "2009-05-18T04:39:13Z")
This is as good a time as any to post the [Trans Poly U Fight Song!](http://www.tomsmithonline.com/lyrics/trans_poly_u.htm) 🙂 (Which is to the same tune as Notre Dame’s.) ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-at-notre-dame/496773/77 "2009-05-18T04:40:14Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Of course they’re real people. Why wouldn’t they be? How do you get that out of anything I said? > > If you’re talking about embryos and fetuses, then no, they’re not yet people. Troll. Period, end of sentence. Pro-abortion? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-at-notre-dame/496773/78 "2009-05-18T04:41:22Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Yeah, right, most abortions are about rape babies. :rolleyes: What difference if they are or are not? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-at-notre-dame/496773/79 "2009-05-18T04:43:15Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > It’s fun how you pretend to know something. > [This chapter of the Catechism](http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.htm)has a special section on abortion which, unlike “regular” muder carries also excommunication, meaning no every priest can forgive it. No priest can forgive anything. Every Catholic knows that. > [@](#): > > Out of step with their own Pope regarding abortion, yeah, right. Regading their opinions of Obama. > [@](#): > > You meant Iraq? Please produce the official document condemning the war as inherently immoral and commanding catholics to resist it, as they should with abortion. Irrelevant, desperate handwaving. The Pope has condemned the Iraq war. The Pope is the spokesperson for the Church and for Christ. Are you saying the Pope is wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-at-notre-dame/496773/80 "2009-05-18T04:43:38Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What difference if they are or are not? It doesn’t make a difference. It’s EVIL any way you slice it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-at-notre-dame/496773.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-at-notre-dame/496773.md?page=5)