# Obama attempts to "modify" the BIG THREE entitlements, I will remove his 2012 sticker from my Jeep! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 23, 2011, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-attempts-to-modify-the-big-three-entitlements-i-will-remove-his-2012-sticker-from-my-jeep/590118 "2011-07-23T23:05:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-attempts-to-modify-the-big-three-entitlements-i-will-remove-his-2012-sticker-from-my-jeep/590118/61 "2011-07-24T23:18:05Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Can you give any citations for your opinion above? Was there a Constitutional amendment required to institute social security? Is one required to raise benefits? > > As for honoring debts, the best you can say there is that there’s a conflict in the Constitution as only the House has the ability to raise revenues. And if they don’t want to, the President’s hands are pretty much tied. My citation to my opinion is my opinion. However, the 14th amendment specifies that debts and pensions (including those as a result of the Civil War, but not rebellions debts and expenses, and not limiting to all other pensions incurred at other times) cannot be questioned. That was passed after the provisions saying revenues must originate the in the House and to the extent that it goes to honoring debts and pensions (other than civil war confederate debts and pensions) it is unconstitutional to change the social security pensions by default. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-attempts-to-modify-the-big-three-entitlements-i-will-remove-his-2012-sticker-from-my-jeep/590118/62 "2011-07-24T23:27:28Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > it is unconstitutional to change the social security pensions by default. That’s a good question for the Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-attempts-to-modify-the-big-three-entitlements-i-will-remove-his-2012-sticker-from-my-jeep/590118/63 "2011-07-25T00:05:50Z")
From what I know about Jeeps, I would be hesitant about removing that sticker. It very likely is integral in holding it together! ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-attempts-to-modify-the-big-three-entitlements-i-will-remove-his-2012-sticker-from-my-jeep/590118/64 "2011-07-25T01:13:50Z")
To what extent do conservatives/Republicans see Obama as a spineless cave-in/sell-out to the right? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-attempts-to-modify-the-big-three-entitlements-i-will-remove-his-2012-sticker-from-my-jeep/590118/65 "2011-07-25T03:40:41Z")
You fucking retards. Of course, Cyclone is an obvious troll. He’s as much a life-long Democrat as Rand Rover. If you don’t want Obama to have to compromise with the Republicans, the thing to do is not to allow a Republican to win the White House, you fucking retards. The thing to do, is to work to elect more Democrats to the House and Senate, and then Obama won’t have to compromise. Only a fucking retard wouldn’t understand that the Republicans hold a majority in the House. The President shouldn’t compromise? How does that work, you fucking retards? All spending originiates in the House. This is what happens when you elect Republicans to the House, they control spending for the next two years. This is the Constitution. You don’t like it? Then stop being such fucking retards whining about the President, and get off your fucking asses and start figuring out how to volunteer to defeat the Republcans who control the house. Start manning the phone banks. Start calling people. Start knocking on doors. Start putting up signs. Start writing letters to the editor. Start attending speeches by your least-favorite Republican and start heckling them until security throws you out. Start donationg money. Start calling people and organizations that supported these guys and demand that they reconsider. Or you could just bitch and whine about how the President isn’t “tough” enough. That sounds easier. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-attempts-to-modify-the-big-three-entitlements-i-will-remove-his-2012-sticker-from-my-jeep/590118/66 "2011-07-25T04:38:03Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > If you don’t want Obama to have to compromise with the Republicans, the thing to do is not to allow a Republican to win the White House, you fucking retards. The thing to do, is to work to elect more Democrats to the House and Senate, and then Obama won’t have to compromise. But he and the Democrats would anyway, it’s what they do. It’s what they did before the present crop of Republicans got in. Regardless of how many or how few Democrats there are, the Republicans _always_ dominate the government because the Democrats are so _utterly spineless_. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-attempts-to-modify-the-big-three-entitlements-i-will-remove-his-2012-sticker-from-my-jeep/590118/67 "2011-07-25T05:18:17Z")
When Obama folds every time the Republicans raise, then why would you blame them for raising every time they get a chance? If the roles were reversed, wouldn’t you? Obama doesn’t stand for anything any more. If there is a Democrat on the ballot in 2012, I will vote for them, I’m just not sure Obama is a Democrat. He might as well throw his hat into the Republican primary at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-attempts-to-modify-the-big-three-entitlements-i-will-remove-his-2012-sticker-from-my-jeep/590118/68 "2011-07-25T08:56:30Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > When Obama folds every time the Republicans raise, then why would you blame them for raising every time they get a chance? Because they are scum and lunatics. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-attempts-to-modify-the-big-three-entitlements-i-will-remove-his-2012-sticker-from-my-jeep/590118/69 "2011-07-25T15:18:23Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > You fucking retards. > > Of course, Cyclone is an obvious troll. He’s as much a life-long Democrat as Rand Rover. > > If you don’t want Obama to have to compromise with the Republicans, the thing to do is not to allow a Republican to win the White House, you fucking retards. The thing to do, is to work to elect more Democrats to the House and Senate, and then Obama won’t have to compromise. > > Only a fucking retard wouldn’t understand that the Republicans hold a majority in the House. The President shouldn’t compromise? How does that work, you fucking retards? All spending originiates in the House. This is what happens when you elect Republicans to the House, they control spending for the next two years. This is the Constitution. > > You don’t like it? Then stop being such fucking retards whining about the President, and get off your fucking asses and start figuring out how to volunteer to defeat the Republcans who control the house. Start manning the phone banks. Start calling people. Start knocking on doors. Start putting up signs. Start writing letters to the editor. Start attending speeches by your least-favorite Republican and start heckling them until security throws you out. Start donationg money. Start calling people and organizations that supported these guys and demand that they reconsider. > > Or you could just bitch and whine about how the President isn’t “tough” enough. That sounds easier. So, you are suggesting we practice democracy, and, like, vote and stuff? That idea is so crazy, it just might work! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-attempts-to-modify-the-big-three-entitlements-i-will-remove-his-2012-sticker-from-my-jeep/590118/70 "2011-07-25T15:31:00Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, you are suggesting we practice democracy, and, like, vote and stuff? I never vote. It just encourages the fucking retards. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-attempts-to-modify-the-big-three-entitlements-i-will-remove-his-2012-sticker-from-my-jeep/590118/71 "2011-07-25T15:31:54Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > But he and the Democrats would anyway, it’s what they do. It’s what they did before the present crop of Republicans got in. Regardless of how many or how few Democrats there are, the Republicans _always_ dominate the government because the Democrats are so _utterly spineless_. Are you fucking high? If you are, maybe you need to stop. If you’re not, maybe you need to start. “The Democrats” aren’t spineless. The problem for the Democrats is that there are a couple dozen “moderate” Democrats who sometimes vote with the Republicans on major issues. This means that a Democratic majority doesn’t mean that the Democratic Speaker of the House can pass any legislation he wishes. He could punish these wayward Democrats, and the result would be that next election there’d be a Republican in that seat. We do not have a left-wing electorate in this country, and this is why you don’t have a full-throated left-wing President or House or Senate. Here and there you’ll find one, but the problem is that these people need to be elected by the voters. That can happen in Vermont, but it ain’t happening in most other places. If you don’t like the politicians, try changing the voters. This is called political activism. This is how the Religious Right gets their people into office. Democracy isn’t about pulling the lever every two years. Voting just ratifies the decisions that have already been made. Don’t like the decisions that are being made? Get off your ass and organize. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-attempts-to-modify-the-big-three-entitlements-i-will-remove-his-2012-sticker-from-my-jeep/590118/72 "2011-07-25T15:43:12Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > Is there a debate here? Does the OP contain anything beyond uncited invective, ALL CAPS, and colored text? Seeing as the OP hasn’t come back to this thread yet, I strongly doubt it. (My post self-graped for old times’ sake.) ---
**Author:** ![Cyclone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/db5fbb/32.png) [@Cyclone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyclone)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-attempts-to-modify-the-big-three-entitlements-i-will-remove-his-2012-sticker-from-my-jeep/590118/73 "2011-07-25T23:02:02Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > First, the Declaration of Independence has, literally, zero legal authority… You might want to check with a Constitutional attorney on that. The Declaration of Independence is the primary document laying down the legal principles of our government. I will leave it to you to do your own Google research. ---
**Author:** ![Cyclone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/db5fbb/32.png) [@Cyclone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyclone)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-attempts-to-modify-the-big-three-entitlements-i-will-remove-his-2012-sticker-from-my-jeep/590118/74 "2011-07-25T23:03:23Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Could someone running from Obama’s left defeat Bachmann or Palin? 10 years down the road the answer to that will be a solid, obvious “yes” (because the hardcore conservative demographics skew old), but today, I have to wonder if it’s worth the risk. Interesting observation. I think Hillary Clinton would be a viable candidate today. ---
**Author:** ![Cyclone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/db5fbb/32.png) [@Cyclone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyclone)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-attempts-to-modify-the-big-three-entitlements-i-will-remove-his-2012-sticker-from-my-jeep/590118/75 "2011-07-25T23:09:46Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > Is there a debate here? Does the OP contain anything beyond uncited invective, ALL CAPS, and colored text? Some of us would appreciate it if you could address the topic of this thread rather than address the software capabilities of this _ **THE STRAIGHT DOPE.** _ You are of course welcome to start your own topic on software. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-attempts-to-modify-the-big-three-entitlements-i-will-remove-his-2012-sticker-from-my-jeep/590118/76 "2011-07-25T23:11:03Z")
> [@Cyclone](#): > > You might want to check with a Constitutional attorney on that. The Declaration of Independence is the primary document laying down the legal principles of our government. I will leave it to you to do your own Google research. Wha? Can you cite a single example demonstrating that the “Declaration of Independence is the primary document laying down the legal principles of our government”? ---
**Author:** ![Cyclone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/db5fbb/32.png) [@Cyclone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyclone)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-attempts-to-modify-the-big-three-entitlements-i-will-remove-his-2012-sticker-from-my-jeep/590118/77 "2011-07-25T23:11:51Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > \*\*I wouldn’t go as far as not voting for Obama, but I agree that he’s being somewhat of a pansy with his negotiations with the Republicans. > > I don’t like how raising the debt limit is being treated as a legitimate sacrifice by the Republicans. Meanwhile, tax increases are not even being discussed because Obama is concerned about what Boehner can sell to his caucus. > > I’m glad both the Democratic President and the Republican Speaker of the House are worried about the Republican Caucus, but who is supposed to be concerned about the Democratic Caucus? > > I think that Obama should veto anything that ties raising the debt limit to spending cuts with no revenue increases. If the voters allow such childish actions from legislators, then we are all beyond screwed, whether we cave to their demands or not. > > If things start to look pretty bad because of the default, then Obama can always [raise the debt ceiling on his own. \*\*](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/22/opinion/22posner.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=general) At last an informed voice of reason. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Cyclone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/db5fbb/32.png) [@Cyclone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyclone)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-attempts-to-modify-the-big-three-entitlements-i-will-remove-his-2012-sticker-from-my-jeep/590118/78 "2011-07-25T23:14:21Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I hear you. > > I would still like to see a credible primary challenger to Obama. My main reason is to have someone, win or lose, **make Obama accountable and call him out on his bullshit.** This dialog is great. We Dems fight these things out in public as opposed to Republicans hiding behind closed doors in a smoke filled room. Love your post. ---
**Author:** ![Cyclone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/db5fbb/32.png) [@Cyclone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyclone)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-attempts-to-modify-the-big-three-entitlements-i-will-remove-his-2012-sticker-from-my-jeep/590118/79 "2011-07-25T23:19:16Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Seriously? Do you WANT another Republican in the White House? :eek: > > -XT I am beginning to wonder if there is a difference between President Obama and a Republican. Since 1932 the Democratic Party has stood for giving people a helping hand to stay on their feet. When single payer went down the drain, I wondered if President Obama was really a Democrat. Now, Obama is playing poker with the BIG 3 - Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. I wonder if Obama has a Wall Street elephant tattooed on his ass, or maybe it is just the letters AIG. ---
**Author:** ![Cyclone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/db5fbb/32.png) [@Cyclone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyclone)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-attempts-to-modify-the-big-three-entitlements-i-will-remove-his-2012-sticker-from-my-jeep/590118/80 "2011-07-25T23:23:09Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I said PRIMARY challenger. > > I admit to some waffling in my mind on this. > > I am tired of the political calculation of, “I may be bad but the other person is worse.” > > I want to vote for someone I like, not for the lesser of two bad choices. > > Bottom line I think there is value in Obama being held accountable for his wonderful rhetoric completely mismatching his actions. > > Maybe a credible challenger will help to right a badly listing ship in Obama. Wonderfu. We actually can agree! 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-attempts-to-modify-the-big-three-entitlements-i-will-remove-his-2012-sticker-from-my-jeep/590118.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-attempts-to-modify-the-big-three-entitlements-i-will-remove-his-2012-sticker-from-my-jeep/590118.md?page=5)