# Obama backs India for permanent seat on UN Security Council **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 8, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-backs-india-for-permanent-seat-on-un-security-council/559919 "2010-11-08T16:36:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-backs-india-for-permanent-seat-on-un-security-council/559919/81 "2010-11-10T19:27:57Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Didn’t we let France on the Security Council to make up for them being invaded during WWII? Also, if we went to regional democratic representation from a fresh UN, is Jordan democratic? Always puzzling to read this kind of comments, even though they seem quite common from American posters on the Net. The US decided who was going to seat at the UNSC and who wasnt? (if this really was the case, what’s with the constant bitching from America against the UNSC. You cant declare yourself to be the Supreme and One power and then complain about tyranny). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-backs-india-for-permanent-seat-on-un-security-council/559919/82 "2010-11-10T20:02:43Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Didn’t we let France on the Security Council to make up for them being invaded during WWII? Also, if we went to regional democratic representation from a fresh UN, is Jordan democratic? Well, it is probably the most democratic state in the Arab world. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-backs-india-for-permanent-seat-on-un-security-council/559919/83 "2010-11-10T20:11:30Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > Always puzzling to read this kind of comments, even though they seem quite common from American posters on the Net. The US decided who was going to seat at the UNSC and who wasnt? (if this really was the case, what’s with the constant bitching from America against the UNSC. You cant declare yourself to be the Supreme and One power and then complain about tyranny). By “We” I meant the Allies. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-backs-india-for-permanent-seat-on-un-security-council/559919/84 "2010-11-10T21:04:09Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Does Pakistan think India is going to be able to draw the UN member countries into all going to war with Pakistan, just because? > . Apart from the pride issue, there’s the concern that India would be able to veto any vote regarding its possible hostile actions against Pakistan, or about the Kashmir issue or whatever is important for Pakistan. There has been proposals to create permanent seats without the right of veto, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-backs-india-for-permanent-seat-on-un-security-council/559919/85 "2010-11-10T21:18:36Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Didn’t we let France on the Security Council to make up for them being invaded during WWII? The five permanent members ARE the five major Allied nations of WW2, who often went by the collective name “United Nations” even before the organization was founded. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-backs-india-for-permanent-seat-on-un-security-council/559919/86 "2010-11-11T00:29:30Z")
So am I alone in thinking that there should not be any permanent members? And I say that as a citizen of a country that is a permanent member and as a solid supporter of the UN. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-backs-india-for-permanent-seat-on-un-security-council/559919/87 "2010-11-11T02:36:36Z")
You’re not alone. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-backs-india-for-permanent-seat-on-un-security-council/559919/88 "2010-11-11T02:44:46Z")
India is the largest Democracy in the world.Whether they would vote along with the US remains to be seen. But it is possible they would be an ally. We have been such butt heads that we could use a friend. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-backs-india-for-permanent-seat-on-un-security-council/559919/89 "2010-11-11T03:44:54Z")
India has perhaps the most pro-American population in the world. A 2005 PEW poll showed that 71% of Indians had a favorable view of the United States. At the time, that was higher than any other country, including allies like Great Britain and Canada. And that was at the height of world attention on the Iraq war. India also faces the same kinds of problems from militant Islam. and militant Islam is going to occupy an increasing amount of our security attention in the future. Attitudes can change, but I think it’s safe to say that in general India would ally itself with the U.S. on most matters - at least as much as countries like France and Germany. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Man_In_Black)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-backs-india-for-permanent-seat-on-un-security-council/559919/90 "2010-11-11T04:24:07Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > They’re vestal virgins in these regards compared to the United States. And of course the biggest megaphone at the UN is America’s. And the US would fail any human rights test to get in any new group now. We don’t even have habeas corpus anymore and the prez says he can assassinate US citizens without due process and the reasons he chooses to assassinate people are state secrets. Are we living in the same world? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-backs-india-for-permanent-seat-on-un-security-council/559919/91 "2010-11-11T04:48:08Z")
That bit about India giving up the seat to China. I did not know that. That actually gives them a chance that China would approve of their joining the Council. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-backs-india-for-permanent-seat-on-un-security-council/559919/92 "2010-11-11T04:57:49Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > India has perhaps the most pro-American population in the world. A 2005 PEW poll showed that 71% of Indians had a favorable view of the United States. At the time, that was higher than any other country, including allies like Great Britain and Canada. And that was at the height of world attention on the Iraq war. > > India also faces the same kinds of problems from militant Islam. and militant Islam is going to occupy an increasing amount of our security attention in the future. > > Attitudes can change, but I think it’s safe to say that in general India would ally itself with the U.S. on most matters - at least as much as countries like France and Germany. Makes sense, but, how do we ally with India and stay friends with Pakistan? ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-backs-india-for-permanent-seat-on-un-security-council/559919/93 "2010-11-11T04:59:54Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > That bit about India giving up the seat to China. I did not know that. That actually gives them a chance that China would approve of their joining the Council. I dont see how India could have gotten a USNC seat when they werent even independent. Sounds like a bogus story. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-backs-india-for-permanent-seat-on-un-security-council/559919/94 "2010-11-11T16:39:40Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > I dont see how India could have gotten a USNC seat when they werent even independent. Sounds like a bogus story. I thought that was dubious as well, but actually, [it looks like that one’s true](http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2009/09/16/stories/2009091650380800.htm): > [@](#): > > Ironically, around 1955, Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru was offered the disputed Chinese Permanent Security Council seat by the US to keep out the People’s Republic of China, and he also was sounded out by the USSR Prime Minister, Nikolai Bulganin, to allow China to take this seat while giving India a sixth permanent seat in the Security Council. Nehru rejected this offer in deference to China. History may have been different if this offer had been subjected to serious negotiations. Now, 54 years later, we are struggling for this seat. I can’t find anything discussing Nehru’s reasoning, other than weird Hindu nationalist blogs, but I suspect Nehru acted under pressure from the Soviet Union. Indian foreign policy throughout the Cold War revolved around its status as the leader of the nonaligned movement/third world, and in taking a UNSCO seat it would have risked alienating both sides. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-backs-india-for-permanent-seat-on-un-security-council/559919/95 "2010-11-11T17:10:29Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Makes sense, but, how do we ally with India and stay friends with Pakistan? I’m not sure. In fact, I’m not sure how America is going to manage to stay friends with Pakistan at all. Probably by buying it off, would be my guess. Not an optimal way to do things, but damned if I know how to crack that particular nut. I think Pakistan is going to be a big problem for the world in the next decade. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-backs-india-for-permanent-seat-on-un-security-council/559919/96 "2010-11-11T17:12:43Z")
I don’t think we can stay friends with Pakistan while continuing to fight a GWOT under any circumstances anyway. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-backs-india-for-permanent-seat-on-un-security-council/559919/97 "2010-11-11T17:25:59Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I don’t think we can stay friends with Pakistan while continuing to fight a GWOT under any circumstances anyway. But how do we fight it without Pakistan’s help, or at least cooperation? We can hardly hope to move troops into or out of Afghanistan by crossing Iran’s territory or airspace. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-backs-india-for-permanent-seat-on-un-security-council/559919/98 "2010-11-11T21:22:05Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You’re not alone. Phew! ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-backs-india-for-permanent-seat-on-un-security-council/559919/99 "2010-11-12T01:35:24Z")
> [@The\_Man\_In\_Black](#): > > Are we living in the same world? Yes, we are. What part of my post don’t you agree with and why? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-backs-india-for-permanent-seat-on-un-security-council/559919/100 "2010-11-12T01:39:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But how do we fight it without Pakistan’s help, or at least cooperation? We can hardly hope to move troops into or out of Afghanistan by crossing Iran’s territory or airspace. There are three former Soviet republics bordering Afghanistan on the other side. IIRC, that’s how we got special forces units in during the first weeks of the war. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-backs-india-for-permanent-seat-on-un-security-council/559919.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-backs-india-for-permanent-seat-on-un-security-council/559919.md?page=6)