# Obama be shuckin' 'n' jivin', dontchyaknow! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 25, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784 "2012-10-25T01:13:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/21 "2012-10-25T03:02:05Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Oh, you guys are right. Other people have used a racist phrase so it’s okay for Palin. What was I thinking? I didn’t ask about the racist phrase. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/22 "2012-10-25T03:07:25Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Would it make a difference if she had said, “The president is mentally deficient”? > > Is that “better” somehow? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/23 "2012-10-25T03:10:22Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I didn’t ask about the racist phrase. Then what makes you think I was talking to you? But to answer your question, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/24 "2012-10-25T03:15:36Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Yes. > [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > But to answer your question, yes. Why? ETA: > [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Then what makes you think I was talking to you? Because your post immediately followed mine and you did not specify or quote who you were responding to so the assumption is you are talking to the person “above” you in the thread. Sorry if I got that wrong but it would behoove you to be more clear who you are responding to. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/25 "2012-10-25T03:20:06Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > Well, [apparently some of Obama’s buddies have also used the exact same phrase without anyone getting their panties in a bunch](http://newsbusters.org/blogs/scott-whitlock/2012/10/24/chris-matthews-who-used-phrase-shuck-and-jive-now-calls-sarah-palin-). > > [Here is the video of Jay Carney, Obama’s press secretary, engaging in vicious bigotry by using the ‘shuck and jive’ phrase](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/09/07/carney_im_going_to_shuck_and_jive.html). You’re going to rage against him too, right? There’s no possible way that your outrage over Palin’s choice of words is really just an excuse for partisan sniping, right? Your first link is broken for me. As to the second: Carney, a white man, said it about himself. Palin said it about an African American. Racially charged words tend to be more offensive when used to refer to a member of the race in question, especially when used by someone who is not a member of that race. Do you really not understand how this works? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/26 "2012-10-25T03:24:37Z")
I’ve heard the phrase used by many people over the years and never heard anyone suggest it was racist before today. Nobody called Carlos Santana racist when he told Georgia to stop shuckin’ and jivin’ about illegal immigration last year. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/27 "2012-10-25T03:26:26Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Oh, you guys are right. Other people have used a racist phrase so it’s okay for Palin. What was I thinking? Believe me, I don’t want to defend Sarah Palin _at all_, but this phrase is not racist, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/28 "2012-10-25T03:26:52Z")
Can we at least all agree that Mitt Romney is a jive-ass honky? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/29 "2012-10-25T03:30:39Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > Can we at least all agree that Mitt Romney is a jive-ass honky? Yes. Yes we can. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/30 "2012-10-25T03:32:36Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Why? For the same reason “gay” and “fag” aren’t acceptable insults. [Here’s](http://specialolympicsblog.wordpress.com/2012/10/23/an-open-letter-to-ann-coulter/)an open letter from a guy with Downs Syndrome to Ann Coulter in response to her use of the words “retard” and “retarded” as insults. > [@](#): > > Because your post immediately followed mine and you did not specify or quote who you were responding to so the assumption is you are talking to the person “above” you in the thread. > > Sorry if I got that wrong but it would behoove you to be more clear who you are responding to. I apologize if it wasn’t clear that my reference to the “racist phrase” and “Palin” in post 20 had nothing to do with the word “retard” and “Ann Coulter.” ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/31 "2012-10-25T03:44:46Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > For the same reason “gay” and “fag” aren’t acceptable insults. [Here’s](http://specialolympicsblog.wordpress.com/2012/10/23/an-open-letter-to-ann-coulter/)an open letter from a guy with Downs Syndrome to Ann Coulter in response to her use of the words “retard” and “retarded” as insults. It’s not the same. The dictionary definitions of “gay” (happy) and “fag” (cigarette) originally had nothing to do with the negative connotations they have today. “Retarded” has a distinct meaning. [“Slow or limited in intellectual or emotional development or academic progress”](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/retarded) A person with, say, Downs Syndrome is, in fact, retarded. Can it be used in a pejorative way? Sure. Context is everything. That said if you call a person “mentally deficient” you are saying the same thing as “retarded”. To say one is “better” than the other is to make an unwarranted distinction. People getting bent out of shape about the use of “retarded” is merely political correctness run amok for no effect. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/32 "2012-10-25T03:50:04Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > It’s not the same. > > The dictionary definitions of “gay” (happy) and “fag” (cigarette) originally had nothing to do with the negative connotations they have today. Are you saying the word “gay” has a negative connotation today? Is being “gay” considered a bad thing? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/33 "2012-10-25T03:51:45Z")
I will note that I am waiting for Sarah Palin to blast Coulter over her use of the word “retarded”: > [@](#): > > "The Obama Administration’s Chief of Staff scolded participants, calling them, “F—ing retarded,” according to several participants, as reported in the Wall Street Journal. > > Just as we’d be appalled if any public figure of Rahm’s stature ever used the “N-word” or other such inappropriate language, Rahm’s slur on all God’s children with cognitive and developmental disabilities — and the people who love them — is unacceptable, and it’s heartbreaking." > > SOURCE: [http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0210/Palin\_goes\_after\_Emanuel\_on\_retarded\_slur.html](http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0210/Palin_goes_after_Emanuel_on_retarded_slur.html) Not holding my breath waiting for consistency from Palin though. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/34 "2012-10-25T04:01:37Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Are you saying the word “gay” has a negative connotation today? Is being “gay” considered a bad thing? [Context is everything.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGC_KYA_Np4) (NSFW - language) Can’t say it better than that. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/35 "2012-10-25T04:21:39Z")
Lotta whitesplaining going on here… ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/36 "2012-10-25T04:24:52Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > [Context is everything.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGC_KYA_Np4) (NSFW - language) > > Can’t say it better than that. A [continuation of that same bit above](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=P8PhoyDIRRk#t=315s) which I think further illustrates the point (fast forwarded to relevant part). ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/37 "2012-10-25T05:03:21Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > A person with, say, Downs Syndrome is, in fact, retarded. > > Can it be used in a pejorative way? Sure. Context is everything. > > That said if you call a person “mentally deficient” you are saying the same thing as “retarded”. To say one is “better” than the other is to make an unwarranted distinction. > > People getting bent out of shape about the use of “retarded” is merely political correctness run amok for no effect. The Special Olympics has been running a campaign since 2008 to end the use of the r-word. Here’s what they have to say > [@](#): > > When they were originally introduced, the terms “mental retardation” or “mentally retarded” were medical terms with a specifically clinical connotation; however, the pejorative forms, “retard” and “retarded” have been used widely in today’s society to degrade and insult people with intellectual disabilities. Additionally, when “retard” and “retarded” are used as synonyms for “dumb” or “stupid” by people without disabilities, it only reinforces painful stereotypes of people with intellectual disabilities being less valued members of humanity. The federal government has replaced the term “mental retardation” with “intellectual disabilities”. You may find the distinction unwarranted, but talk to a person with intellectual disabilities who has been called a “retard” or to the families of such people, and they will have a different opinion. Back in 1986 I worked on legislation affecting the intellectually disabled, and even over 25 years ago it was very clear which terms were appropriate and respectful. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/38 "2012-10-25T05:16:13Z")
> [@](#): > > A person with, say, Downs Syndrome is, in fact, retarded. A person with black skin and African roots is, in fact, by the dictionary definition, a negroid. I’m pretty sure you understand, though, that it’s unacceptable in this modern world to call black people “negroids.” Have you ever thought that using the word “retarded” or “retard” to mean “stupid” as an insult may be offensive to people with learning disabilities? Similarly, using the word “gay” to mean “stupid” is offensive to gay people. You’re right, though, it is about context. Saying “Refrigeration will retard bacterial growth” is fine. Saying “The president’s a retard” is offensive. Saying “I am a gay man” is fine. Saying “That’s gay” in reference to something that’s unappealing is offensive. And, yeah, Carlin might be funny, but it doesn’t make him an authority. I’m pretty sure Chris Rock has spoken extensively on race relations, and I’ve laughed heartily at his material, but I’m not going to apply his stand-up routine to my life in the real world. > [@Snowboarder Bo](#): > > Believe me, I don’t want to defend Sarah Palin at all, but this phrase is not racist, IMO. I think you should think real hard before ever directing the phrase “shuck and jive” toward a black person in real life. What \*you \*think is racist, and what \*they \*think is racist just might not be the same. Food for thought. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/39 "2012-10-25T05:29:55Z")
Sarah Palin thanks all of you for continuing to keep her relevant. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/40 "2012-10-25T05:34:53Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Sarah Palin thanks all of you for continuing to keep her relevant. For serious. Sarah Palin and Ann Coulter exist, as far as I can tell, solely to piss off liberals. It is a job they do well. I am sort of tired – no, I am deathly tired – of the Internet blowing up in outrage every time Palin or Coulter say something else offensive, which they do on a regular basis, because again, it is their job. “Shuck and jive” does not seem particularly racist to me, although I’m sure that Sarah Palin is absolutely thrilled that some people think it is, so her stupid commentary gets passed around and heard by thousands more people than it would have originally. “Retarded” is in fact an offensive term, as I’m sure Ann Coulter is well aware. Is it November yet? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784.md?page=3)