# Obama be shuckin' 'n' jivin', dontchyaknow! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 25, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784 "2012-10-25T01:13:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/41 "2012-10-25T05:45:08Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > For serious. > > Sarah Palin and Ann Coulter exist, as far as I can tell, solely to piss off liberals. It is a job they do well. I am sort of tired – no, I am deathly tired – of the Internet blowing up in outrage every time Palin or Coulter say something else offensive, which they do on a regular basis, because again, it is their job. > > “Shuck and jive” does not seem particularly racist to me, although I’m sure that Sarah Palin is absolutely thrilled that some people think it is, so her stupid commentary gets passed around and heard by thousands more people than it would have originally. “Retarded” is in fact an offensive term, as I’m sure Ann Coulter is well aware. > > Is it November yet? To me they are two completely different animals. Coulter is very smart. You may not agree with her but she can hold her own in a debate with any talking head. She uses insults and hyperbole to get attention. And it works. Palin is just a moron that people keep giving attention to. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/42 "2012-10-25T05:48:44Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > The federal government has replaced the term “mental retardation” with “intellectual disabilities”. You may find the distinction unwarranted, but talk to a person with intellectual disabilities who has been called a “retard” or to the families of such people, and they will have a different opinion. Again…context. Who is saying it, why they are saying it and to whom they are saying it is the context. You can say "“intellectual disability” in lieu of “retarded” but does that change anything? Can these words be used in a hurtful way? Of course they can. That said I do not see how using a euphemism is an improvement. If anything the euphemism is hiding the derogatory remark behind more flowery/complex language. They are still saying the same thing. Personally if I were in their shoes I would find the obvious evasion more offensive than just coming out and saying it because the speaker does not have the balls to own up to their own words preferring instead to hide behind fancy rhetoric. That the government capitulates in this is significant of nothing. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/43 "2012-10-25T05:49:33Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > To me they are two completely different animals. Coulter is very smart. You may not agree with her but she can hold her own in a debate with any talking head. She uses insults and hyperbole to get attention. And it works. > > Palin is just a moron that people keep giving attention to. I can’t argue with that, although the effect is often the same. Coulter is a smart troll and Palin is a dumb troll, but ultimately they are both trolls. Ann Coulter would probably last for years on the SDMB, enraging 75% of the membership on a regular basis while still staying just barely on this side of the rules; whereas Palin would end up getting banned in like two days, tops. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/44 "2012-10-25T05:52:18Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > I think you should think real hard before ever directing the phrase “shuck and jive” toward a black person in real life. What \*you \*think is racist, and what \*they \*think is racist just might not be the same. Food for thought. No, not really food for anything. It’s not a racist phrase. It’s never been a racist phrase. People are just now trying to make it into a racist phrase, but it isn’t. Save the RO for something that actually deserves it. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/45 "2012-10-25T05:53:29Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Coulter is very smart. I agree. Smart enough in my view that I wonder if she can even believe her own rhetoric. Personally I think she is laughing all the way to the bank and there is nothing more to it for her. ETA: Palin is not smart…far from it but she is also laughing all the way to the bank. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/46 "2012-10-25T06:02:35Z")
You have to understand, Sarah Palin grew up in a different time. No, wait, she was born in 1964. Okay, I guess she’s just ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/47 "2012-10-25T06:34:45Z")
> [@Snowboarder Bo](#): > > No, not really food for anything. It’s not a racist phrase. It’s never been a racist phrase. People are just now trying to make it into a racist phrase, but it isn’t. Save the RO for something that actually deserves it. Well color me unsurprised that you, **Snowboarder Bo** , are completely tone deaf on appropriate phrase usage. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/48 "2012-10-25T09:32:17Z")
Add one to the “that’s racist” side. I can’t imagine that people don’t consider that term racist. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/49 "2012-10-25T09:36:48Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Well color me unsurprised that you, **Snowboarder Bo** , are completely tone deaf on appropriate phrase usage. Well color me surprised that you, **Happy Lendervedder** , are being completely ridiculous about this. If I said that Halle Barry should stop bobbing and weaving and just answer my question, am I being racist and sexist, in your opinion? ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/50 "2012-10-25T10:55:27Z")
It seems like just yesterday when Rush kept on playing the song Barak the Magic Negro every day. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/51 "2012-10-25T12:25:41Z")
> [@Lasciel](#): > > [Shuck and Jive](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/shuck_and_jive) > > Up there with watermelon and fried chicken references for being blatantly racist pretty much without fail. That definition doesn’t give any indication of a racist tone. Yes, it’s origin is “Afro-American vernacular English”, but that doesn’t mean it’s racist. Got another link that actually indicates what people are claiming here? I had no idea this term was racist. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/52 "2012-10-25T12:40:09Z")
There are always going to be borderline cases. The phrase is understood in all dialects of American English even though it came from AAVE. However, I assume that SP is using this phrase because Obama is black. Which makes the phrase at least mildly racist, but it is so mild that the slight offensiveness would be forgiven if it were funny. Which it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/53 "2012-10-25T13:00:03Z")
The phrase isn’t racist. Palin _may_ be racist, but she’s also clueless enough that I wouldn’t be surprised if she had no idea that the phrase could even be considered (by some super-sensitive people) racist. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/54 "2012-10-25T13:00:51Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > That definition doesn’t give any indication of a racist tone. Yes, it’s origin is “Afro-American vernacular English”, but that doesn’t mean it’s racist. Got another link that actually indicates what people are claiming here? I had no idea this term was racist. Back in the slave days, slaves used to shuck corn. While they were shucking the corn the slaves would ‘jive’\* with each other to help pass the time and forget about what a miserable situation they were in. Jive: To tell jokes or funny stories. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/55 "2012-10-25T13:35:42Z")
[The Atlantic](http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/10/was-it-racist-palin-accuse-obama-shucking-and-jiving/58317/#) has a good breakdown of the phrase’s historical usage. For what it’s worth, I grew up in the (white) midwest and never would have considered it a racist phrase. I wouldn’t use it myself because I never feel entirely comfortable using black slang, but I don’t think it’s racist. According to the Atlantic piece, it _has_ been used racially, but for the most part it doesn’t appear to be inherently racist. ---
**Author:** ![Deser2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dfb087/32.png) [@Deser2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deser2)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/56 "2012-10-25T13:47:02Z")
For all the people who are saying it isn’t racist, maybe this will clarify things… On its own, no, it’s not technically racist. But lets look at the following example: Situation 1: Two white friends are hanging out. WF#1 says to WF#2, “Hey what’s up my brother”. In this context, there probably isn’t a real racist intention. Situation 2: A white guy walks up to a black stranger on the street and says, “Hey what’s up my brother”. In this context, there may be racist overtones to what was said. Want an easy way to see if something is racist? Ask yourself the following question: If I walked into a predominantly black neighborhood (or whatever race the term in question addresses) would I be comfortable yelling this at the top of my lungs? If the answer is yes, then its probably not racist. If the answer is no, then it probably is. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/57 "2012-10-25T13:49:45Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > Carney, a white man, said it about himself. Palin said it about an African American. Racially charged words tend to be more offensive when used to refer to a member of the race in question, especially when used by someone who is not a member of that race. Exactly. I, a white man, can say “I like watermelon and fried chicken.” I will be in a big mess of trouble around here if I said “_insert black poster’s name here_ likes watermelon and fried chicken.” Context is key. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/58 "2012-10-25T13:56:03Z")
> [@Deser2](#): > > For all the people who are saying it isn’t racist, maybe this will clarify things… > > On its own, no, it’s not technically racist. But lets look at the following example: > > Situation 1: Two white friends are hanging out. WF#1 says to WF#2, “Hey what’s up my brother”. In this context, there probably isn’t a real racist intention. > > Situation 2: A white guy walks up to a black stranger on the street and says, “Hey what’s up my brother”. In this context, there may be racist overtones to what was said. > > Want an easy way to see if something is racist? Ask yourself the following question: If I walked into a predominantly black neighborhood (or whatever race the term in question addresses) would I be comfortable yelling this at the top of my lungs? > > If the answer is yes, then its probably not racist. If the answer is no, then it probably is. I get the over all point you’re trying to make and I agree with you. But you used a really bad analogy. I call all my friends ‘brother’, including my black friends. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/59 "2012-10-25T13:58:59Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > I get the over all point you’re trying to make and I agree with you. > > But you used a really bad analogy. I call all my friends ‘brother’, including my black friends. I think the word he should’ve inserted into the hypothetical to make a clearer point is “boy.” ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784/60 "2012-10-25T13:59:00Z")
I have a hard time believing that “shuck and jive” is a part of Palin’s idiolect. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-be-shuckin-n-jivin-dontchyaknow/638784.md?page=4)