# Obama being tested-How Should he Respond? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 10, 2009, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-being-tested-how-should-he-respond/488947 "2009-03-10T13:03:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-being-tested-how-should-he-respond/488947/21 "2009-03-10T20:40:02Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I think you are wrong. I think that nearly everyone would care that we deal with people whose main sin is not grovelling properly to America by killing cities in an unprovoked attack. Look how the world reacted to the war in Iraq, and that wasn’t nearly as bad as this would be. Ah, I thought you were reacting to my suggestion of more particular targetting. Nuking cities is indeed another matter. But again, I think that you overestimate the reaction. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-being-tested-how-should-he-respond/488947/22 "2009-03-10T22:10:33Z")
The North Korean rocket is a nonissue. If they can actually get the thing to work, which I’m skeptical of to begin with, what could they possibly put on it, another one of those nukes which required a full installation and a significant fraction of their supply of fissile material and which still fizzled anyway? Kim Jong Mentally Ill will be long dead and North Korea integrated into the South before they could ever manage to build a nuke capable of fitting on a missile and a missile to carry it. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-being-tested-how-should-he-respond/488947/23 "2009-03-10T22:31:55Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > The Chinese are harassing a US Navy spy ship. N. Korea wants to launch a satellite (and warns of retaliation if interfered with). the Russians are saying that they will "not haggle’ with the USA. An Iran announces more uranium enrichement. > It is obvious that Obama is being tested. My question: should he respons aggressively? How about backing aaway-might that be the best way to relax tensions? To the Chinese, it would signal acceptance (of their proto-superpower status), to the N. Koreans, it would assuage their paranoia, as for Russia, the same. what is your take? I think an aggressive response would be the wong thing to do. Now where is that battleship thread when we need it. Anywhoo Re the NK’s , allow the launch and gauge the sucess of the missile/booster in lofting it, lots was done with russias sputnik program , in regards to military re-arnament in the states and would put paid to the idea that these guys are doing something peaceable. Re Iran, lets see what obama’s take on the matter is , I believe he said he was going to issue an olive branch, Iran is not going anywhere for a few years , so back burner it. re china, send in capital units and lets see if the chinese still want to play games. My opinion, send in a number of Ohio class boomers visibly and let them disapear , let them fear the sound of silence. Declan ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-being-tested-how-should-he-respond/488947/24 "2009-03-10T22:33:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The North Korean rocket is a nonissue. If they can actually get the thing to work, which I’m skeptical of to begin with, what could they possibly put on it, another one of those nukes which required a full installation and a significant fraction of their supply of fissile material and which still fizzled anyway? Kim Jong Mentally Ill will be long dead and North Korea integrated into the South before they could ever manage to build a nuke capable of fitting on a missile and a missile to carry it. The citizens of Honolulu, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, and Tokyo agree with you. As for the idea that the Arabs would be upset if we wiped out Persian power, that’s laughable. Sure they’d use it as a whipping post, but they respect force and the Persians are their enemies and heretical Shi’ites. I’d hate to see Tehran go, but Qom would take care of the Ayatollah problem. We could just carpet bomb and forego nukes if you prefer. Or if you want to do it even more simply tell them we’ll take out all of their defense infrastructure. Then we can get around that sticky humanitarian issue. The idea that UN sanctions mean anything without American bombs is laughable nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-being-tested-how-should-he-respond/488947/25 "2009-03-10T23:19:05Z")
As iI say, backing away might be the best thing to do. If the Chinese realize we are not going to play in their sandbox (the S. China Sea), they might be more amenable to help us with other things. Likewise Iran: if we ignore them, they won’t get any mileage out of shouting “see, we’ve started 100 more centrifuges!” I would welcome the USA backing away from all these areas. If the South Koreans and the Japanese are upset, let them deal with N. Korea. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-being-tested-how-should-he-respond/488947/26 "2009-03-10T23:26:02Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > As for the idea that the Arabs would be upset if we wiped out Persian power, that’s laughable. Sure they’d use it as a whipping post, but they respect force and the Persians are their enemies and heretical Shi’ites. But we are bigger enemies, and we have no more regard for anyone else in the ME than we do Iran. And they’ll take this for what it is; the announcement that we are willing to mass murder them by the millions, because we can. > [@mswas](#): > > I’d hate to see Tehran go, but Qom would take care of the Ayatollah problem. Yeah, because mass murdering an entire city is going to make the Iranians just LOVE us. > [@mswas](#): > > We could just carpet bomb and forego nukes if you prefer. Or if you want to do it even more simply tell them we’ll take out all of their defense infrastructure. Then we can get around that sticky humanitarian issue. More mass murder, in other words. > [@mswas](#): > > The idea that UN sanctions mean anything without American bombs is laughable nonsense. Who said anything about the UN ? > [@ralph124c](#): > > Likewise Iran: if we ignore them, they won’t get any mileage out of shouting “see, we’ve started 100 more centrifuges!” They’ll get national survival out of it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-being-tested-how-should-he-respond/488947/27 "2009-03-11T00:14:24Z")
The only test I see here is the Chinese boat harassment thing. That is definitely a test to see exactly how the Obama administration operates. They did the same thing with Bush and the Orion spy plane thing in 2001. He should investigate to make sure that they were in international waters and then lodge the appropriate diplomatic protest. If the Russians don’t want to haggle, then let’s not haggle. If Obama thinks the missiles are necessary, then they go in, no haggling, period. If they are not necessary, then don’t put them in. We cannot nuke Iran. Duh. Anyone who says otherwise is an insane troll. Starting a nuclear war will not prevent a nuclear war, it will start one. The US cannot use nuclear forces first without irreparable damage to our ability to get along with the rest of the world. Neither Iran or North Korea have the ability to deliver nuclear weapons on missiles to the US and neither would risk their precious few bombs with a sneak boat attack. North Korea? Send Bill Richardson over to find out what the price is to buy Kim Il Jong out of his interest and reunite the country and pay it. If they say no, then nothing further, leave it to the Chinese and South Koreans to pay the extortion. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-being-tested-how-should-he-respond/488947/28 "2009-03-11T00:32:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Starting a nuclear war will not prevent a nuclear war, it will start one. You would think this would be a tautology, wouldn’t you… ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-being-tested-how-should-he-respond/488947/29 "2009-03-11T00:49:22Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > The Chinese are harassing a US Navy spy ship. Too early to say. I doubt the Chinese are spoiling for a fight at this time. > [@ralph124c](#): > > N. Korea wants to launch a satellite (and warns of retaliation if interfered with). Another missile. Cut aid and blockade. Let them starve. N. Korea will collapse shortly anyway. > [@ralph124c](#): > > the Russians are saying that they will "not haggle’ with the USA. Of course they won’t. Publicly. The Obama team fucked up big time when the details of the negotiations were made public. Such negotiations should be led in closed rooms and not on newspaper frontpages. Convincing someone to sell his (or in this case: her) lucrative business partner down the river is not done in public. > [@ralph124c](#): > > An Iran announces more uranium enrichement. And has been doing so for ages. You could probably have worked with Russia to put the screw on them if you weren’t so insistent on the stupid star wars program. In any case, Europe is much more likely to feel the effect of an Iranian nuclear program. Let them deal with it for once. Anyway Iran is screwed, it too will collapse in the near future. > [@ralph124c](#): > > It is obvious that Obama is being tested. So you bought into the idea that the world revolves around Obama. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-being-tested-how-should-he-respond/488947/30 "2009-03-11T01:05:26Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > You would think this would be a tautology, wouldn’t you… If your goal is to not start a nuclear war yeah. If your goal is to start a nuclear war where only you get to use nukes, it’s perfect. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-being-tested-how-should-he-respond/488947/31 "2009-03-11T01:14:26Z")
No such nuclear war is posible. Even it were possible, using nukes is evil, full stop. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-being-tested-how-should-he-respond/488947/32 "2009-03-11T01:24:47Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No such nuclear war is posible. > > Even it were possible, using nukes is evil, full stop. That’s why you use threats to deter Iran from using them. If they think you seriously will do it, they’ll drop their program. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-being-tested-how-should-he-respond/488947/33 "2009-03-11T01:31:16Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > That’s why you use threats to deter Iran from using them. If they think you seriously will do it, they’ll drop their program. Or accelerate it, or add biological or chemical weapons programs because they think we are mass murderers who can only be forced into civilized behavior by the threat of mass death. We HAVE been waving our nukes under their nose ( such as Bush pointedly refusing to take a nuclear attack “off the table” ), and look what the result is. And you weren’t talking about using “threats to deter Iran from using them”. You were talking about killing cities just because they are trying to build some. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-being-tested-how-should-he-respond/488947/34 "2009-03-11T01:38:09Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And you weren’t talking about using “threats to deter Iran from using them”. You were talking about killing cities just because they are trying to build some. I specifically talked about threatening to kill cities if they HAVE built some. So the only correct interpretation of what I said is, ‘threaten’. Your point stands on its own without saying I said something I didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-being-tested-how-should-he-respond/488947/35 "2009-03-11T02:15:41Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The N. Korean satellite doesn’t matter. Let them launch it. Then just after it lifts off take it out with an air to air missile. Then air drop 100,000 or so leaflets on the crowd, and various North Korean population centers with pictures of food and paragraphs in Korean about how they’d have plenty of food if their government wasn’t impotent, and weak like an old senile man. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-being-tested-how-should-he-respond/488947/36 "2009-03-11T02:16:54Z")
I would: - Increase inspections on containers coming off Chinese vessels and move more Tago class vessels outside of the disputed area. - Enforce whatever mandate the UN allows for NK missiles - Send Russian PM a postcard from Poland thanking him for his honesty. - Let Israel deal with Iranian nukes. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-being-tested-how-should-he-respond/488947/37 "2009-03-11T02:22:37Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I specifically talked about threatening to kill cities if they HAVE built some. So the only correct interpretation of what I said is, ‘threaten’. Your point stands on its own without saying I said something I didn’t. My mistake, not that it matters much. > [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Then just after it lifts off take it out with an air to air missile. Then air drop 100,000 or so leaflets on the crowd, and various North Korean population centers with pictures of food and paragraphs in Korean about how they’d have plenty of food if their government wasn’t impotent, and weak like an old senile man. I doubt it would do anything. Any true believers would just reject it as “obvious lies”. Anyone else would just reject it because they are by now cynics who assume that anything they are told is a lie, or they know it’s true but can’t do anything. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-being-tested-how-should-he-respond/488947/38 "2009-03-11T02:29:23Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I doubt it would do anything. Any true believers would just reject it as “obvious lies”. Anyone else would just reject it because they are by now cynics who assume that anything they are told is a lie, or they know it’s true but can’t do anything. It’d send a message to the NK government that they can’t launch rockets, and rub their nose in it. Maybe make the flyers even better. An image edit of Kim Jong Il receiving anal sex from a goat. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-being-tested-how-should-he-respond/488947/39 "2009-03-11T02:38:17Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Another missile. Cut aid and blockade. Let them starve. N. Korea will collapse shortly anyway. Cite? > [@Rune](#): > > So you bought into the idea that the world revolves around Obama. Yeah, he’s just the recently-inaugurated President of the United States, no foreign countries/leaders are unsure about his approach to anything. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-being-tested-how-should-he-respond/488947/40 "2009-03-11T02:39:56Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Maybe make the flyers even better. An image edit of Kim Jong Il receiving anal sex from a goat. Pointless. To semi-quote a series I like, I’m not interested in relieving their toilet paper shortage. Because that’s about the only effect dropping stuff like that would have. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-being-tested-how-should-he-respond/488947.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-being-tested-how-should-he-respond/488947.md?page=3)