# Obama/Biden 08' **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 23, 2008, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017 "2008-08-23T12:12:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/181 "2008-08-25T03:37:50Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] You’re going to have to elaborate on that. I don’t speak Right-Wing Paranoid Nutcase. [/QUOTE] She’s talking about [this Obama “lying” (note, not perjury) nonsense.](http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=Nzk4OTMxZjI2Yzk3ZTJlYzFmYWZjNGZhZDRiOTMwN2Y=) > [@](#): > > The complaint charges Obama with not admitting his drug use on his application. > > ``` > 18. Have you ever, either as an adult or juvenile, been cited, > arrested, accused, formally or informally, or convicted of any > violation of any law other than moving traffic violations. > > In response to question 18, it is understood the Respondent answered > "no." The Respondent did not disclose his multiple drug use occurring > through his time in high school and college. > > ``` > > Interesting. One wonders how the anonymous complaint filer knows that Obama answered “no.” I don’t see how an answer of “no” is a lie. Of all the legitimate gripes one may have about Obama, this is some pretty desparate silliness. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/182 "2008-08-25T03:43:26Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] You’re going to have to elaborate on that. I don’t speak Right-Wing Paranoid Nutcase. [/QUOTE] On the Illinois State Bar Registration and Public Disciplarny Record, it specifically asks for "Full former name(s). Obama put “None”, which is perjury. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/183 "2008-08-25T03:44:34Z")
The name on his birth certificate is Barack Hussein Obama II. He was called “Barry” for short as a child (for some reason a lot of righties attach some kind of enormous significance to that). He was once registered at a Catholic school in Indonesia under the name “Barry Soetoro,” because it was the custom of the country to use register kids under their fathers’ (or in this case stepfather’s) name. Barack was about 6 years old at the time. His religion was also listed as “Muslim” because that was the name of his stepfather. If you actually Google “Barry Soetoro” you will find of flood of right wing hate sites touting the “secret Muslim” canard, which is what I strongly suspect **Carol** is trying to do in this thread. His legal name is, and always has been Barack Hussein Obama II. he choseto discard “Barry” and be called by his full name “Barack” after he grew up. Why the wingnuts find that so fascinating, I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/184 "2008-08-25T03:46:15Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] On the Illinois State Bar Registration and Public Disciplarny Record, it specifically asks for "Full former name(s). Obama put “None”, which is perjury. [/QUOTE] No it isn’t. Obama does not have any “former names.” ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/185 "2008-08-25T03:49:22Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] No it isn’t. Obama does not have any “former names.” [/QUOTE] Barry Soetero isn’t a former name? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/186 "2008-08-25T03:51:16Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] She’s talking about [this Obama “lying” (note, not perjury) nonsense.](http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=Nzk4OTMxZjI2Yzk3ZTJlYzFmYWZjNGZhZDRiOTMwN2Y=) I don’t see how an answer of “no” is a lie. Of all the legitimate gripes one may have about Obama, this is some pretty desparate silliness. [/QUOTE] It’s not a lie because he was never arrested or convicted. It doesn’t ask if you’ve ever _done_ drugs, only if you’ve ever been caught. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/187 "2008-08-25T03:51:58Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] She’s talking about the Obama “lying” (note, not perjury) on his law school application nonsense. [/QUOTE] I went and did her work for her by looking it up myself, too. The question was not “have you ever done anything that could be considered a felony”. The question was: > [@](#): > > Have you ever, either as an adult or juvenile, been cited, arrested, accused, formally or informally, or convicted of any violation of any law other than moving traffic violations. I have never seen any evidence that Obama ever underwent any of those things. Therefore a “no” answer is NOT either lying or perjury. He’s also accused in that complaint of lying about his traffic violations, $400.00 worth that were unpaid at the time. The wording is somewhat confusing: > [@](#): > > 1. Have you ever been charged with a traffic violation involving > felonious conduct or the use or possession of alcohol or drugs or > which resulted in time spent in custody, a fine of $200 or more, or > the revocation or suspension of your driver’s license? The question is, did he know or remember that he had traffic violations? I don’t know. I’ve been surprised to find that I had a traffic violation. I’ve been surprised to be reminded that I had a traffic violation by a notice of overdue fines. Traffic violations, in general, aren’t exactly anything that anyone who isn’t a total paranoid right-wing nutcase is very concerned about. There’s also some confusion about the wording of the question. “Have you ever been charged with **a** traffic violation involving…a fine of $200 or more…” Does that mean a single violation involving a fine of $200 or more? Were any of his violations worth $200 or more, or were they, say, 10 violations for $40 each? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/188 "2008-08-25T03:53:27Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] It’s not a lie because he was never arrested or convicted. It doesn’t ask if you’ve ever _done_ drugs, only if you’ve ever been caught. [/QUOTE] What’s next? It depends on what the meaning of “is” is? Haven’t we done all this before? ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/189 "2008-08-25T03:53:40Z")
This election has really changed my perception of the number of my fellow americans who are crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/190 "2008-08-25T03:53:42Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] Barry Soetero isn’t a former name? [/QUOTE] Not a name that Obama ever had. He was never legally named Soetoro. As I’ve already explained (and my source for this is none other than a Fox News special on Obama), it was the custom for schools to register kids with their stepfather’s names, regardless of what their legal names really were. Barack Obama has only ever had one name. You are misinformed. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/191 "2008-08-25T03:54:32Z")
And here I see that she’s not even on THAT…she’s making up crap about his freaking name… Let’s say that my name is Joseph Richard Smith. If, at various times in my life, I’ve gone by Joe Smith, J.R. Smith, J. Richard Smith, Rick Smith and Joey Smith, do I have to list all of those on that line instead of just putting Joseph Richard Smith? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/192 "2008-08-25T03:54:15Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] It’s not a lie because he was never arrested or convicted. It doesn’t ask if you’ve ever _done_ drugs, only if you’ve ever been caught. [/QUOTE] Yes, but I was wrong about what **Carol Stream** was angling at. She was talking about the alias angle, which I had not heard before, and I think is still rather desperate nit-picking, if true. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/193 "2008-08-25T03:56:35Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] What’s next? It depends on what the meaning of “is” is? Haven’t we done all this before? [/QUOTE] Read the question. The question is about citations, arrests and convictions, not about drug use. They don’t care about drug use. They want to know if you have a criminal record. I guarantee you that _nobody_ ever says “I’ve done drugs but never been caught.” ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/194 "2008-08-25T03:57:40Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] desperate nit-picking [/QUOTE] Same-same. It’s all they’ve ever had. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/195 "2008-08-25T04:01:35Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] What’s next? It depends on what the meaning of “is” is? Haven’t we done all this before? [/QUOTE] Oh, so you are arguing the drug angle. I’m so confused. Anyhow, that’s a pretty straightforward question, and not semantic nit-picking. Most job applications I’ve seen have a version of that question on the forms. The question is about arrests relating to drug use, not simple casual use. If it were, then practically no one would have a job today. Arguing about this is as stupid as arguing that John McCain is not eligible to be president because he doesn’t fulfill citizenship requirements. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/196 "2008-08-25T04:05:07Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Not a name that Obama ever had. He was never legally named Soetoro. As I’ve already explained (and my source for this is none other than a Fox News special on Obama), it was the custom for schools to register kids with their stepfather’s names, regardless of what their legal names really were. Barack Obama has only ever had one name. You are misinformed. [/QUOTE] Where did Barry Dunham come from, then? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/197 "2008-08-25T04:10:20Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] Most job applications I’ve seen have a version of that question on the forms. The question is about arrests relating to drug use, not simple casual use. **If it were, then practically no one would have a job today.** [/QUOTE] Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/198 "2008-08-25T04:16:02Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] Where did Barry Dunham come from, then? [/QUOTE] Obama joked during his Senate campaign that if he’d taken his mother’s name he’d be “Barry Dunham”. Barry, to make things blindingly obvious, is supposed to be a contraction of “Barack” in this case. Dunham is his mother’s maiden name. Get it? Good. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/199 "2008-08-25T04:18:11Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] Where did Barry Dunham come from, then? [/QUOTE] Dunham is his mother’s name. Cite that it was ever Barack’s legal name? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/200 "2008-08-25T04:19:18Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] Cite? [/QUOTE] [http://ohioline.osu.edu/flm02/FS15.html](http://ohioline.osu.edu/flm02/FS15.html) > [@](#): > > By age 14, 35% of youth have engaged in some form of illicit (illegal) drug use. **By the end of high school, more than 50% will have tried at least one illicit drug**. Teens who begin using illicit drugs before the age of 15 are more likely to develop a lifelong dependence on illegal substances. Below are a few of the most common drugs used by youth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017.md?page=11)