# Obama/Biden 08' **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 23, 2008, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017 "2008-08-23T12:12:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2008, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/81 "2008-08-23T19:36:15Z")
[QUOTE=Charlie Tan] So, how are these guys gonna win the South? Playing up that Biden comes from a working class background won’t be enough, I think. [/QUOTE] How many of McCain’s likely picks are Southerners? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2008, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/82 "2008-08-23T19:39:34Z")
Biden’s energy is one of the things I like most about the choice. I think Baye is just too bland and Kaine is too green. Biden is a pro. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2008, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/83 "2008-08-23T20:03:34Z")
I love how he stole the “My friends” line. 😃 I’m thrilled with this choice. I think he’s going to compliment not only the ticket, but the administration, as well. It also doesn’t hurt that I’m friends through my work with a close friend of Joe Biden’s. 🙂 I’ve actually known for a few weeks that he was on the VERY short list and likely to be the choice, but was sworn to secrecy about it. This election just got FUN!! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2008, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/84 "2008-08-23T20:15:11Z")
[QUOTE=xenophon41] We couldn’t agree less! Back in February before Obama had clinched the nomination, I told colleagues this was the easiest election to call since 1972. I still predict Obama wins the popular vote by at least five percentage points. [/QUOTE] It _appears_ that Obama will win easily. However, there’s virtually no consensus on what effect, if any, race will have on the actual election, that it doesn’t/hasn’t had on the polls. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2008, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/85 "2008-08-23T20:17:06Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] FDR was a special case. He was a war president _during a popular war_; this made him effectively untouchable. He could have tipped Larry, Moe and Curly as his VP candidates and probably not lost one vote in a million for it. [/QUOTE] He was only elected once during a war, and that being the fourth one. And by your own cite, it was the closest vote. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2008, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/86 "2008-08-23T22:26:56Z")
A pretty good choice. Not great, inspiring or unusual, but not bad. At least it’s not Bayh. ---
**Author:** ![xanthous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/53a042/32.png) [@xanthous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xanthous)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2008, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/87 "2008-08-23T23:07:56Z")
OK, so I see [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDVUPqoowf8) on my Google home page today. Is this running on TV or is it just an internet ad? To me, this is what’s gonna make this a long, hard battle. (unless I’m just an uber-sensitive worrier about how quickly this kind of stuff gets internalized by Joe & Jane America) ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2008, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/88 "2008-08-23T23:08:54Z")
[QUOTE=xenophon41] We couldn’t agree less! Back in February before Obama had clinched the nomination, I told colleagues this was the easiest election to call since 1972. I still predict Obama wins the popular vote by at least five percentage points. [/QUOTE] Interesting! **xenophon** , please contribute [to this thread of mine,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10125396) if you please. I’d love to see you talk more about this! ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2008, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/89 "2008-08-23T23:10:09Z")
[QUOTE=xanthous] OK, so I see [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDVUPqoowf8) on my Google home page today. Is this running on TV or is it just an internet ad? To me, this is what’s gonna make this a long, hard battle. (unless I’m just an uber-sensitive worrier about how quickly this kind of stuff gets internalized by Joe & Jane America) [/QUOTE] That’s a great ad. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2008, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/90 "2008-08-23T23:17:55Z")
[QUOTE=Love Rhombus] So Biden is feisty? Not the best adjective… [/QUOTE] According to Ed Koch, the word “feisty” in politics has one meaning: “short”. Biden is a very safe, very cautious choice. He doesn’t hurt the Obama candidacy much, and he doesn’t help much. He brings a bit of foreign policy expertise, balanced by a reputation for inappropriately shooting off his mouth. Pretty much a wash. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2008, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/91 "2008-08-23T23:29:25Z")
If there’s immediate risk to this VP choice, it’s that [it’ll make Clinton supporters even angrier.](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/23/some-in-clinton-circle-outraged/) Will it be a chaotic, campaign-demolishing convention? We’ll see… ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2008, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/92 "2008-08-23T23:36:02Z")
Let me say why I think the Biden choice will hurt Obama and it has nothing to do with Biden. This text messaging for $ was a complete clusterfuck. I knew Biden was chosen before the message went out plus the message went out 12 midnight EDT on a Friday night. I think he may have alienated more than a few potential voters/doners. [/end of hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2008, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/93 "2008-08-23T23:50:43Z")
For those who don’t know about this, expect the following to come up in the campaign: - Joe Biden failed a course in college because he plagiarized another work in one of his term papers. - During his 1998 campaign, he plagiarized a speech by Neil Kinnock. - When asked about his college grades, Joe Biden told the questioner, “I have a much higher IQ than you do.” He then proceeded to say that he graduated in the top half of his class, that he went to school on a full academic scholarship (the only one in his class to be so honored), that he was considered to be the top political science student in his department, that he won an international moot court competition, and that he had three degrees. As it turns out, none of that was remotely true. Biden graduated near the bottom of his class (76th out of 85) at Delaware University, did not receive an academic scholarship (he got a half scholarship for financial hardship, not academics), did not win an international moot court competition, and has one double major in history and political science, not three degrees. That’s some pretty serious prevarication. He basically completely misrepresented his academic history. That, coupled with two known instances of plagiarism on his part, could be a problem in this campaign. We’ll see. It certainly makes McCain’s ‘cross in the sand’ story pale in comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/94 "2008-08-24T00:02:08Z")
If it does come up, **Sam** , Biden could do worse than try out some points [made by a conservative source.](http://www.the-idler.com/IDLER-02/1-23.html) (And, of course, he should keep said source handy - not only to combat accusations of - heh - plagiarism, but also to point out the political bent of the author to conservatives to combat the inevitable howls.) ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/95 "2008-08-24T00:04:05Z")
[QUOTE=xanthous] OK, so I see [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDVUPqoowf8) on my Google home page today. Is this running on TV or is it just an internet ad? [/QUOTE] If McCain picks Romney as a running mate, payback’s a bitch. The more I read and see, the better I like Biden. He’s not a peacenik, but he’s smart about Iraq. He’s got experience and foreign policy credentials. His personal story (i.e. middle class roots, tragically lost his first wife, still commutes home from work each night, et al.) is a truly good narrative. Yes, he runs the risk of mouthing off to ill effect, but he’s also sharp enough to bury Giuliani with the “noun, verb, 9/11” quip (Plus, as Bush has shown, people like a straight shooter, even when he makes gaffes. The key is to not fall all over yourself apologizing). And, as the kids like to say, he’s been vetted (we know that they are going to attack him with “plagairism” because he failed to provide a proper cite in a speech. That’s hardly the sort of damage that a running mate with a “zipper problem” would engender). Perhaps most importantly, I think Biden has the knowledge and skill set to help Obama govern, post-election. Lots of people are damning Obama for selecting an insider, which supposedly undermines his pledge to run a different kind of campaign. But, he needs somebody like Biden, who can help him get things done. I don’t think being a different type of candidate necessarily means abandoning all of the fundamentals of governance. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/96 "2008-08-24T00:13:19Z")
[QUOTE=Leaper] If it does come up, **Sam** , Biden could do worse than try out some points [made by a conservative source.](http://www.the-idler.com/IDLER-02/1-23.html) (And, of course, he should keep said source handy - not only to combat accusations of - heh - plagiarism, but also to point out the political bent of the author to conservatives to combat the inevitable howls.) [/QUOTE] I don’t think the Plagiarism stuff will stick. Biden’s claim is that he simply didn’t understand the rules of attribution - which is probably BS, but it’s plausible enough to get him a pass. I think the business of lying about his academic background is a little more serious, but I honestly don’t know how much resonance that will have. Maybe none at all, or maybe it will be a big deal. One thing in Biden’s favor is that he’s been around a long time, and like McCain most Americans who pay attention have already decided what kind of guy he is. This stuff would be a lot more damaging to someone like Obama who the public still don’t know very well. In Biden’s case, it may blow over with a curt, “Yeah, I was angry and said stupid stuff I shouldn’t have, and learned my lesson that you never play fast with the truth, even when someone is needling and provoking you.” But maybe it won’t. The mood of the electorate is always a funny thing to predict. > [@Atomickton](#): > > he more I read and see, the better I like Biden. He’s not a peacenik, but he’s smart about Iraq. He’s got experience and foreign policy credentials. His personal story (i.e. middle class roots, tragically lost his first wife, still commutes home from work each night, et al.) is a truly good narrative. Yes, he runs the risk of mouthing off to ill effect, but he’s also sharp enough to bury Giuliani with the “noun, verb, 9/11” quip (Plus, as Bush has shown, people like a straight shooter, even when he makes gaffes. The key is to not fall all over yourself apologizing). I actually agree with almost all of that. I’ve got a lot of respect for Biden. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/97 "2008-08-24T00:17:44Z")
The plagiarism thing is overcooked. The Kinnock thing was something he routinely quoted and routinely cited. The one time he forgot to cite it got picked up on video and the Republicans turned it into a phony plagiarism charge… In Law school he got in trouble for failing to properly cite a few blocks of material in one of his papers. He didn’t steal the whole paper. He had to do it over again, but, it’s not like he copied and pasted the whole thing. Plus, it was like 40 years ago. He was absolutely correct when he said he had a higher IQ than that tard who called in on C-Span. As for his academic exaggeration – who gives a shit? John McCain is a lie machine himself and lies about far more important things. Plus, he’s a [plagiarist](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/27/mccain-plagiarized-foreig_n_93769.html). I’m sure the Republicans will try to make hay of these things, but it’s not going to cost Obama any votes, and it’s pretty easy to come right back at McCain on his own lying and plagiarism. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/98 "2008-08-24T00:21:35Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] I was actually pushing for having a young VP who could run as the incumbent in 2016, but if you go back and review the last 50 years, being the standing veep at the end of an administration’s term limit doesn’t guarantee much of anything, so I guess I don’t have as much of a point as I thought I did. [/QUOTE] Well, it’s never a guarantee, but having been a Veep helps with making a serious nomination bid. Ask Nixon ('68), Mondale ('84), Bush41 ('88), Gore ('00). Heck, even Quayle was trying in '96 and '00. And that’s beside the very real possibility of getting the job upon the death or resignation of the Prez ('45, '63, '74, a near-miss in '81). If Biden has no expectation of running in 2016, maybe this leaves open a hint of possibility for Hillary Clinton, who will be 68 in 2016. Assuming New York returns her in 2012, that’ll be her last reasonable chance. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/99 "2008-08-24T00:43:59Z")
[QUOTE=Atomicktom] Perhaps most importantly, I think Biden has the knowledge and skill set to help Obama govern, post-election. Lots of people are damning Obama for selecting an insider, which supposedly undermines his pledge to run a different kind of campaign. But, he needs somebody like Biden, who can help him get things done. I don’t think being a different type of candidate necessarily means abandoning all of the fundamentals of governance. [/QUOTE] Biden’s main strength seems to be a good relationship with his fellow Senators on both sides of the aisle. How effective can the Vice-President be as an advocate for the Administration in the Senate? ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017/100 "2008-08-24T00:47:50Z")
[QUOTE=gaffa] Biden’s main strength seems to be a good relationship with his fellow Senators on both sides of the aisle. How effective can the Vice-President be as an advocate for the Administration in the Senate? [/QUOTE] I’m not certain if that question was rhetorical, but I’ll answer anyway. I don’t think the VP will have a public role in the Senate as an Administration advocate, but I think someone who has had a good relationship with both sides of the aisle will have some pull behind the scenes, knowing how to call in favors or settle rivalries in the interest of getting legislation to the floor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-biden-08/461017.md?page=6)