# Obama, Big Fan of Brennan **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 10, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-big-fan-of-brennan/646771 "2013-01-10T17:38:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-big-fan-of-brennan/646771/1 "2013-01-10T17:38:56Z")
Obama on Brennan: > [@](#): > > Time and again, he’s spoken to the American people about our counterterrorism policies because he recognizes we have a responsibility to be [as] open and transparent as possible. Brennan on tranparency: > [@](#): > > our counterterrorism tools do not exist in a vacuum. They are stronger and more sustainable when the American people understand and support them. They are weaker and less sustainable when the American people do not. Brennan lies to American people in flagrant disregard for his above position: > [@](#): > > I can say that the types of operations… that the US has been involved in, in the counter-terrorism realm, that nearly for the past year there hasn’t been a single collateral death because of the exceptional proficiency, precision of the capabilities that we’ve been able to develop. Brennan claims he never said the above, but admits that he is simply one of the most uninformed people in the national security racket: > [@](#): > > what I said was that over a period of time before my public remarks that we had no information about a single civilian, a noncombatant being killed. Let’s not forget that Brennan is at best a torture apologist. Does Obama still expect people to take his transparency and anti-torture rhetoric seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-big-fan-of-brennan/646771/2 "2013-01-10T17:58:12Z")
I don’t particularly want to defend Brennan on torture, but quotes 2 and 3 don’t contradict each other and Obama banned the use of torture techniques when he took office. Do you have any particular reason to believe he’s allowing those tactics or will reverse himself? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-big-fan-of-brennan/646771/3 "2013-01-10T18:15:50Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t particularly want to defend Brennan on torture, but quotes 2 and 3 don’t contradict each other and Obama banned the use of torture techniques when he took office. Do you have any particular reason to believe he’s allowing those tactics or will reverse himself? Anyone who participated in torture, or publicly supported it, should be at the very least banned from public service. Preferably they should be jailed. Quote 2 has him playing up the necessity of the American public being in the know. Quote 3 has him deliberately misinforming the American public so that they are not in the know. One particular reason to believe he isn’t serious about disallowing torture is the appointment of John Brennan. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-big-fan-of-brennan/646771/4 "2013-01-10T18:36:08Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Anyone who participated in torture, or publicly supported it, should be at the very least banned from public service. Preferably they should be jailed. The ship on prison sailed years ago, unfortunately. Brennan had spoken up in defense of the torture tactics, but more recently he’s disavowed them. He’s also said he wasn’t involved in that program himself. (I was going to overlook the irony of you’re suggesting people be jailed for advocating something you oppose, but I can’t. Did you mean to imply that?) > [@](#): > > Quote 3 has him deliberately misinforming the American public so that they are not in the know. Or speaking imprecisely. > [@](#): > > One particular reason to believe he isn’t serious about disallowing torture is the appointment of John Brennan. He has already disallowed the tactics, and you’re not answering the question. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-big-fan-of-brennan/646771/5 "2013-01-10T20:11:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The ship on prison sailed years ago, unfortunately. Brennan had spoken up in defense of the torture tactics, but more recently he’s disavowed them. He’s also said he wasn’t involved in that program himself. (I was going to overlook the irony of you’re suggesting people be jailed for advocating something you oppose, but I can’t. Did you mean to imply that?) (Didn’t realize that the statute of limitations for torture had expired) The ship you are referring to was christened by Obama himself. This is another hint that he’s unserious about torture. It doesn’t matter if he didn’t participate, even if you believe that. He defended the practice to the public, thereby strengthening the political prospects of the policy. Something I oppose? How about something that’s illegal. He was a public official advocating illegal practices. > [@](#): > > Or speaking imprecisely. He denied he had said what he did and Stefanopolous let it slide because he’s a hack. Then he goes on to say that he just didn’t have info on the innocent victims. If the CIA doesn’t investigate who dies in its attacks, they should admit this much. In fact there were [several](http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2011/07/18/washingtons-untrue-claims-no-civilian-deaths-in-pakistan-drone-strikes/) civilian deaths during the time frame he stated. > [@](#): > > He has already disallowed the tactics, and you’re not answering the question. Seriously what the hell are you talking about? I answered your question in express language. The appointment of a torture supporter to lead an agency with a history of torturing makes me think he is not serious about disallowing torture. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-big-fan-of-brennan/646771/6 "2013-01-10T20:24:16Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > (Didn’t realize that the statute of limitations for torture had expired) The ship you are referring to was christened by Obama himself. Yes, that’s true. And I didn’t agree with it even though I understood the reasons. But like I said, that’s not going to change now. > [@](#): > > How about something that’s illegal. He was a public official advocating illegal practices. A couple of problems here: I doubt that’s illegal, the administration’s hack lawyers said what they were doing was legal, and ‘defend’ would probably be more accurate than ‘advocate.’ He didn’t say they should torture anyone, he said torture works (which it doesn’t). > [@](#): > > Seriously what the hell are you talking about? I answered your question in express language. The appointment of a torture supporter to lead an agency with a history of torturing makes me think he is not serious about disallowing torture. What does it mean to non-seriously ban something that you’ve already banned years ago? Do you think Obama is going to reverse that ban? Do you think it’s still happening? Or is this just a way to backhandedly call Obama a torturer even though he’s banned the practice? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-big-fan-of-brennan/646771/7 "2013-01-10T20:36:28Z")
Typical Obama move. He is not only not a progressive, he’s not REALLY a Democrat. It will be interesting to see how the Democratic supporters on this board deal with all the betrayals that Obama will lay on them in the next four years. Brennan. NDAA warrantless wiretapping. Drone strikes. Civil liberties … Obama could give a shit. There are a lot of center left things Obama could give a shit about. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-big-fan-of-brennan/646771/8 "2013-01-10T20:42:54Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > He is not only not a progressive, he’s not REALLY a Democrat. This kind of comment means little or nothing when you’re discussing someone in a non-partisan position. [He’s a career CIA agent, which means he’s worked for Republicans and Democrats.](http://www.northjersey.com/news/120509_North_Bergen_man_is_homeland_security_assistant_for_President_Obama.html) > [@](#): > > The ad ultimately led to a 25-year career as a spy overseas and an analyst and executive at home. Brennan’s résumé includes stints as station chief in Saudi Arabia, intelligence briefer for President Bill Clinton, and top deputy to CIA Director George Tenet during George W. Bush’s presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-big-fan-of-brennan/646771/9 "2013-01-10T21:00:35Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > This kind of comment means little or nothing when you’re discussing someone in a non-partisan position. [He’s a career CIA agent, which means he’s worked for Republicans and Democrats.](http://www.northjersey.com/news/120509_North_Bergen_man_is_homeland_security_assistant_for_President_Obama.html) My mistake, unclear antecedent. I was talking about Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-big-fan-of-brennan/646771/10 "2013-01-10T21:15:30Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Typical Obama move. He is not only not a progressive, he’s not REALLY a Democrat. It will be interesting to see how the Democratic supporters on this board deal with all the betrayals that Obama will lay on them in the next four years. Considering how many people supported him mainly or only because the alternative was even worse, I doubt you’ll see many people all that surprised or disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-big-fan-of-brennan/646771/11 "2013-01-10T21:42:07Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Typical Obama move. He is not only not a progressive, he’s not REALLY a Democrat. It will be interesting to see how the Democratic supporters on this board deal with all the betrayals that Obama will lay on them in the next four years. Well, as someone who myself is not a progressive, nor even REALLY a Democrat (in the long-term state, certainly I am in the modern party alignment), I’ll probably be OK with it. Although on the areas of civil liberties it was very much a lesser of two evils situation. Consider Attorney General John Yoo and Secretary of State John Bolton. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-big-fan-of-brennan/646771/12 "2013-01-10T23:18:43Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Typical Obama move. He is not only not a progressive, he’s not REALLY a Democrat. Of course he’s a Democrat. It’s the Republicans who have the RINO and purity test issues; the Democrats are pretty much willing to accept anyone who wants to join them and work for the good of the country. They don’t all have to measure up to some “liberalness” standard. Yes, many of us would like to see an actual progressive/liberal President. But the current political climate makes that unlikely, and certainly Obama’s a lot more progressive than the alternative we were offered in the last election. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-big-fan-of-brennan/646771/13 "2013-01-11T06:54:20Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > A couple of problems here: I doubt that’s illegal, the administration’s hack lawyers said what they were doing was legal, and ‘defend’ would probably be more accurate than ‘advocate.’ He didn’t say they should torture anyone, he said torture works (which it doesn’t). Ok then at the very least he should never be appointed to public office. Lets face it. He’s a company man. He made a choice to be immoral. This is something that he should be held accountable for, not rewarded for. > [@](#): > > What does it mean to non-seriously ban something that you’ve already banned years ago? Do you think Obama is going to reverse that ban? Do you think it’s still happening? Or is this just a way to backhandedly call Obama a torturer even though he’s banned the practice? I don’t see him publicly reversing the ban. But, like nearly every politician, he’s a ends-justify-means guy. If it comes down to it and Brennan thinks torture will work, Obama might play ball because he lacks principle. This is why someone like Brennan should be kept far away from any kind of power. There are two possibilities, 1) Obama doesn’t know Brennan is an immoral opportunist 2) Obama isn’t concerned with the morality of the people he gives power to. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-big-fan-of-brennan/646771/14 "2013-01-14T00:06:14Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Ok then at the very least he should never be appointed to public office. A better argument. > [@](#): > > But, like nearly every politician, he’s a ends-justify-means guy. If it comes down to it and Brennan thinks torture will work, Obama might play ball because he lacks principle. Brennan will be working for Obama and both are opposed to torture - Obama since his first campaign, Brennan since he started working for Obama. That suggests that at worst, Brennan reversed himself to suit Obama. It’s not easy for me to envision him changing his own mind again and then convincing Obama to do the same. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-big-fan-of-brennan/646771/15 "2013-01-14T07:25:53Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Brennan will be working for Obama and both are opposed to torture - Obama since his first campaign, Brennan since he started working for Obama. That suggests that at worst, Brennan reversed himself to suit Obama. It’s not easy for me to envision him changing his own mind again and then convincing Obama to do the same. You win the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-big-fan-of-brennan/646771/16 "2013-01-14T13:36:08Z")
I do so love these “librul hypocrisy” threads. They always end well. But I’m already on the record as saying that there are many things that Obama has done or is doing that I don’t like, but these are generally things that the Republicans would be doing to a far greater degree so voting for Obama as the lesser evil was a pretty easy choice. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-big-fan-of-brennan/646771/17 "2013-01-14T16:26:24Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I do so love these “librul hypocrisy” threads. They always end well. > > But I’m already on the record as saying that there are many things that Obama has done or is doing that I don’t like, but these are generally things that the Republicans would be doing to a far greater degree so voting for Obama as the lesser evil was a pretty easy choice. Agreed. The left is more apt to forgive not toeing the party line. On the right, you’re not even allowed to praise a Dem for fear of being primaried or censured by your party. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-big-fan-of-brennan/646771/18 "2013-01-14T17:54:24Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I do so love these “librul hypocrisy” threads. They always end well. > > But I’m already on the record as saying that there are many things that Obama has done or is doing that I don’t like, but these are generally things that the Republicans would be doing to a far greater degree so voting for Obama as the lesser evil was a pretty easy choice. I’m not saying you should have voted for Romney because Obama is a bad guy. I’m saying Obama has appointed an immoral person to lead a particularly secretive agency in a particularly secretive government during a particularly secretive administration. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-big-fan-of-brennan/646771/19 "2013-01-15T00:17:45Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I’m not saying you should have voted for Romney because Obama is a bad guy. I’m saying Obama has appointed an immoral person to lead a particularly secretive agency in a particularly secretive government during a particularly secretive administration. How is this administration any more secretive than any other post-Truman administration? Also, the CIA has been conducting immoral and secretive ops since they were called the OSS. Making dark references to them being secretive is just silly, since _that’s what they do_. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-big-fan-of-brennan/646771/20 "2013-01-15T00:28:56Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > How is this administration any more secretive than any other post-Truman administration? Also, the CIA has been conducting immoral and secretive ops since they were called the OSS. Making dark references to them being secretive is just silly, since _that’s what they do_. Ohhhhhhh, I forgot we shouldn’t criticize anything that’s been going on for a long time. I guess I’m “silly”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-big-fan-of-brennan/646771.md?page=2)