# Obama calls for independent Palestine, 1967 borders **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 19, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500 "2011-05-19T20:46:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/441 "2011-05-27T23:13:42Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Errmmm . . . because they don’t live in Gaza? Is it time for an _Oilless in Gaza_ reference yet? No? Pity. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2011, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/442 "2011-05-28T23:12:06Z")
[And now for something completely different.](http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/05/2011528132114104574.html) > [@](#): > > Termed a “parallel states” solution, this concept has been developed over the last four years by a team of Israeli, Palestinian and international scholars, policymakers and even protagonists in the conflict. It is built upon a new understanding of sovereignty that breaks the previously exclusive link with territory, and reorients the basis of identity, citizenship and rights away from land and towards the relation between the state and the individual citizen. Citizenship would follow the citizen wherever she or he may live within the territory of Israel/Palestine, not the territory itself. > > Building on existing institutions and frameworks of the Government of Israel and the Palestinian Authority, two parallel states, Israel and Palestine would be established, whose jurisdictions would be extended to Israelis and Palestinian citizens whether they lived in Israel proper, the West Bank, or Gaza. > > As sovereignty would no longer be tied to territory, demography would no longer determine the viability of each state, and Jews and Palestinians, and indeed, members of the Diasporas of both societies, could in theory live anywhere within the space of Israel/Palestine without disturbing the basic ethnic composition, and thus character, of either state. > > A parallel states structure addresses the core Israeli concerns of remaining Jewish and democratic, while allowing most if not all Israeli settlers to remain in place (although the boundaries of such settlements would be limited to their built up area rather than the much more expansive areas allotted to them under Israeli occupation). At the same time, it addresses the Palestinian need to implement the right of return for Palestinians throughout historic Palestine and be secure on their land. > > Moreover, a parallel state structure would allow Israelis and Palestinians to retain their national symbols, have political and legislative bodies that are responsible to their own electorate, and retain a high degree of political independence. Put simply, the contours of political authority and security would be shared by the two states in a manner that guarantees the long-term secure existence of each community, something the Oslo era two-state solution could never achieve. 😕 Has anything like that ever been tried before? ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/443 "2011-05-29T08:31:44Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [And now for something completely different.](http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/05/2011528132114104574.html) > > 😕 Has anything like that ever been tried before? Was suggested and rejected pre 48. It would never work because all citizens in another sovereignty would fall under the law of that state. I understand the idea of a borderless state, but it would be a governmental nightmare. Who pays for infrastructure in Jaffa? Arabs or Jews? Whose airport do Palestinians fly out of? Considering that each views the other as an enemy of the state, this isn’t even remotely viable. Palestinians want no Jews on their land. The more I think about it, the more ridiculous it sounds. Of course anyones citizenship follows him wherever he goes, but territorial pissings are more complicated than that. ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/444 "2011-05-31T17:26:13Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Verses the famed objectivity of Hussein Agha? How long has he been advising the PNA again? You may not like Ross, but he’s not wrong here. The failure of Camp David/Taba to go forward is on Arafat. It’s his fault the talks failed when Israel didn’t even present him with a peace offer? ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/445 "2011-05-31T17:31:16Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > So, Israel should make concessions, ignore terrorist attacks, and negotiate with Hamas - even though Hamas has outright _declared_ that any negotiations it undertakes with Israel are purely strategic and a waste of time. If it doesn’t, it isn’t serious, and the Palestinians are fully justified in ignoring any and all peace offers. Yes, that’s what the occupying military power needs to do to get the confidence of the occupiees that they’re serious about peace. That’s what the brits needed to do in Northern Ireland and their occupation was a love-fest compared to the brutality of the israeli occupation. At the very least, the absolute least, israel need to stop building illegal settlements in illegally occupied Palestinian territory while they negotiate. And they refuse to do so. Whatever the situation is, israel use it as an excuse not to have peace talks while they continue their ethnic cleansing, dispossession and dessication of the West Bank. ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/446 "2011-05-31T17:37:37Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Apples to earlobes. What do the Palestinians want? > That’s relatively common. They are the power player. > Anyone can negotiate with a terrorist. But negotiating with someone who doesn’t see the same end goal as you is pointless. > GTFO! no way. Cause I was so reading about a [10 month settlement freeze](http://articles.cnn.com/2010-07-04/world/west.bank.settlements_1_west-bank-settlements-freeze?_s=PM:WORLD) last year where oh yeah _nothing happened_ and Obama was like, er, plz wait longer! We’ll set up a mtg! BRB! > What does this have to do with Israel? Nothing. > Nah. Just shows how little you know about foreign policy, Israeli history, and, you know, saying things that make sense. You don’t get to dictate who you negotiate with no matter how powerful you are. The brits and the Unionists sat down and negoptiated with people who had an entirely different goal to them and they managed a deal. And Israel didn’t stop settlement building at all. Look : > **[Israel: Won't accept 'complete freeze' on settlement building](https://www.haaretz.com/2009-09-14/ty-article/israel-wont-accept-complete-freeze-on-settlement-building/0000017f-e3fa-d38f-a57f-e7fa56560000)** > > Despite Palestinian Expectations, Netanyahu Says 'Building in Jerusalem Will Continue as Normal' Since yoiu’re not even aware of recent events over there I’ll leave it to others to decide which of us is clueless about Israeli history and foreign policy. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/447 "2011-05-31T18:00:42Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > And Israel didn’t stop settlement building at all. > [@](#): > > [Israel approves 10-month settlement freeze](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34151442/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/israel-approves--month-settlement-freeze/) But unfortunately - > [@](#): > > Palestinians reject move > [@](#): > > Since yoiu’re not even aware of recent events over there I’ll leave it to others to decide which of us is clueless about Israeli history and foreign policy. That’s not difficult to decide, unfortunately for you. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/448 "2011-05-31T18:33:32Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > It’s his fault the talks failed when Israel didn’t even present him with a peace offer? There wasn’t a peace offer?! What are you talking about? > [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > You don’t get to dictate who you negotiate with no matter how powerful you are. Well, actually, you do. > [@](#): > > And Israel didn’t stop settlement building at all. Look : > > [Israel: Won't Accept 'Complete Freeze' on Settlement Building - Haaretz Com](http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel-won-t-accept-complete-freeze-on-settlement-building-1.7916) Newspaper says…_drumroll_ \* Israel didn’t stop building apartments Jerusalem.\* So what does the PA do? It walks off. Talk about being picky with whom you negotiate with. :dubious: The article you linked quotes Netanyahu quoting Benny Morris - a new historian and a Palestinian favorite. Israel doesn’t consider Jerusalem to be a settlement. It hasn’t for decades. _Jerusalem_ was not part of that agreement. And like many here have stated: Israel won’t give it up. Jerusalem has been annexed. The residents of Jerusalem, both east & west, Arab, Jew, Christian: they all get government benefits. Apparently [at least 30 per cent of the Muslim Arabs in Jerusalem would like to stay Israelis](http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/would-east-jerusalem-arabs-rather-be-citizens-of-israel-or-palestine-1.336758), according to Ha’aretz. Has Abbas talked with them yet? > [@](#): > > When asked if they preferred to become a citizen of Palestine, with all of the rights and privileges of other citizens of Palestine, or a citizen of Israel, only 30 percent chose Palestinian citizenship – as compared to 35 percent that chose Israeli citizenship. Another 35 percent either had no answer or declined to provide it. [Here’s](http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/sep/11/middle-east-obama-peace) the article that Netanyahu was referring to. > [@](#): > > This was to be the stance of the Palestinian national movement’s first major leader, Haj Amin al-Husseini, and of its second, Yasser Arafat. (His only concession to the realities of power was that Israel would have to be destroyed not in one fell swoop but in stages.) And this remains the goal to this day. The rejection of Israel as “a Jewish state” and the unwavering insistence on the refugee “right of return” are the “tells”. > > Obama will press Netanyahu on settlements and achieve some sort of freeze. But once the negotiations begin, the issue of Jerusalem will loudly surface. And then the refugees. And Israel will insist that Abbas – who does not represent Hamas and perhaps only a minority of Palestinians – accept the Clinton-Barak formulation of an “end to the conflict” and an “end to all claims”. And Abbas will demand Israeli acceptance of the “right of return” – the demographic battering ram designed to subvert Israel’s Jewish character and existence. And the talks will founder, possibly followed by a new round of violence. Abbas will negotiate with “Israel”. He will not accept that Israel is a Jewish state. _Hamas_ will accept a _temporary_ state [read: until they eradicate it later] but neither Hamas nor the PA will accept a Israel as a _Jewish_ state. Israel is a Jewish state. It was meant to be one. If you want to flaunt international law, go check out several U.N. resolutions stating the affirmative. > [@](#): > > Since yoiu’re not even aware of recent events over there I’ll leave it to others to decide which of us is clueless about Israeli history and foreign policy. I’m not worried. ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/449 "2011-06-01T17:22:24Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > But unfortunately - > That’s not difficult to decide, unfortunately for you. > > Regards, > Shodan Israel didn’t stop building settlements in Jerusalem. The criterion set by the Palestinians and the US to restart peace talks was that israel freeze settlement building and Israel didn’t freeze settlement building, which is why the Palestinians refused to restart talks. What part of this don’t you understand? ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/450 "2011-06-01T17:24:15Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > There wasn’t a peace offer?! > > What are you talking about? > > Well, actually, you do. > > Newspaper says…_drumroll_ > \* > Israel didn’t stop building apartments Jerusalem.\* > > So what does the PA do? It walks off. Talk about being picky with whom you negotiate with. :dubious: The article you linked quotes Netanyahu quoting Benny Morris - a new historian and a Palestinian favorite. > > Israel doesn’t consider Jerusalem to be a settlement. It hasn’t for decades. _Jerusalem_ was not part of that agreement. And like many here have stated: Israel won’t give it up. Jerusalem has been annexed. The residents of Jerusalem, both east & west, Arab, Jew, Christian: they all get government benefits. > > Apparently [at least 30 per cent of the Muslim Arabs in Jerusalem would like to stay Israelis](http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/would-east-jerusalem-arabs-rather-be-citizens-of-israel-or-palestine-1.336758), according to Ha’aretz. Has Abbas talked with them yet? > > [Here’s](http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/sep/11/middle-east-obama-peace) the article that Netanyahu was referring to. > Abbas will negotiate with “Israel”. He will not accept that Israel is a Jewish state. _Hamas_ will accept a _temporary_ state [read: until they eradicate it later] but neither Hamas nor the PA will accept a Israel as a _Jewish_ state. > > Israel is a Jewish state. It was meant to be one. If you want to flaunt international law, go check out several U.N. resolutions stating the affirmative. > > I’m not worried. Barak didn’t make a peace offer at camp David. He made no actual concrete offer. If you’re serious about making peace you have no say over who you negotiate with. Britain refused for decades to negotiate with terrorists but when they had to start a peace process they sat down and negotiated with terrorists. And israel didn’t stop building settlements. It doesn’t matter what Israel consider jerusalem to be or not to be. The rest of the world considers the settlemts in Jerusalem to be illegal and Israel refused to stop building illegal settlemts on illegally occupied land. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/451 "2011-06-01T17:53:08Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > Israel didn’t stop building settlements in Jerusalem. The criterion set by the Palestinians and the US to restart peace talks was that israel freeze settlement building and Israel didn’t freeze settlement building, which is why the Palestinians refused to restart talks. What part of this don’t you understand? I understand it all perfectly. You seem to believe that Israel is required to give the Palestinians whatever they want before any negotiations begin. That’s not negotiation. This is very much like what Arafat rejected. He could have gotten 95+% of what he claimed to want. He refused it, apparently thinking he could get 100% thru terrorism and the intifada. And here we are. The Palestinians are refusing to make any concessions. Their position seems to be “give me everything I want. We can decide later if you get anything at all.” That is a pretty clear sign of who is willing to negotiate in good faith, and who is simply trying to get as much as they can at the bargaining table before trying to grab the rest by force. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/452 "2011-06-02T01:43:26Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > Israel didn’t stop building settlements in Jerusalem. The criterion set by the Palestinians and the US to restart peace talks was that israel freeze settlement building and Israel didn’t freeze settlement building, which is why the Palestinians refused to restart talks. What part of this don’t you understand? But the U.S. was pleased at the settlment freeze until Abbas complained. Jerusalem was never part of the deal. If Jerusalem is part of “OT”, then those Israeli Arabs aren’t Israelis and they should leave. Stat. Except that’s not going to happen and those Israeli Arabs are Israelis and should remain under Israel’s jurisdiction. Just like Jerusalem. > [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > Barak didn’t make a peace offer at camp David. He made no actual concrete offer. Hardly right-wing: [Palestinians rebuff Barak’s latest peace offer](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/palestinians-rebuff-baraks-latest-peace-offer-623111.html) It’s not up to Abbas any more than it was up to Arafat. The Palestinians won’t have anything short of everything they want. Arafat lost control over his crowd a long time ago. Abbas barely has it. I said that several pages back. Maybe Abbas doesn’t want Rabin’s fate. Both Barak & Netanyahu have had experience with negotiations that spiked violence…I don’t think they’re going to be as casual about affairs this time. Without a full-scale war, this isn’t gonna happen. I had the same thesis several years ago. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/453 "2011-06-02T02:51:17Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Jordan _did_ invade Israel. The Israelis attacked Egypt in a pre-emptive strike; but they did not attack Jordan. They wanted Jordan to sit out the war, and the Jordanian King seriously considered it. However, Nasser persuaded him otherwise, basically by lying to him about the military situation. Wasn’t there some sort of treaty obligation? And like you said, Israel struck first by pre-emptively blowing up the Egyptian air force, it seemed like the events were being portrayed a bit differently than that. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/454 "2011-06-02T02:53:45Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I dunno where you are getting your first sentence from. When you said this > [@malthus](#): > > The Israeli offer wasn’t concrete because they were fishing for some willingness, any willingness, on the part of Arafat to deal, in order to hash out the details ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/455 "2011-06-02T02:56:46Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > First, I have yet to see a transition to democracy anywhere. Second, what makes you think democratic states are _more_ likely to go to war? 😕 Well, when Egypt opens the border to Gaza and I realize that a Democratic Egypt might not be as friendly to Israel as the military dictatorship Israel… ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/456 "2011-06-02T03:03:24Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Netanyahu was willing to talk a year ago and nothing came about. Are you talking about when Israel continued with developments and settlement activity as a prelude to negotiations? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/457 "2011-06-02T03:08:34Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Um, you do realize that the Palestinian population of the West Bank has actually dramatically increased since the Israelis seized it from Jordan don’t you? > > That’s the opposite of “slo-mo ethnic cleansing”. Ethnic cleansing is not the same as genocide. Ethnic cleansing as I understand it is not about killing people, its about kicking people out of an area so that only your kind remains. I don’t know if I would call it ethnic cleansing considering that there are Palestinians that live within Jewish communities. To me it simply looks like a land grab for all the usual reasons you have land grabs but with the added effect of hopefully setting the stage for future negotiations about the eventual border of the Palestinian state. It is THIS practice that we must not reward. That is why borders from a pre-settlement era is important as a starting point. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/458 "2011-06-02T03:20:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I understand it all perfectly. > > You seem to believe that Israel is required to give the Palestinians whatever they want before any negotiations begin. That’s not negotiation. Wait, since when is stopping settlement activity everything the Palestinians want? The Palestinians have to acknowledge the right of Israel to exist (there is simply no point in sitting down with someone who only want to help you plan your funeral), but not stopping the settlement activity was obnoxious and it changed a few minds here in the states about Israel’s ability to negotiate in good faith. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/459 "2011-06-02T03:23:30Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > But the U.S. was pleased at the settlment freeze until Abbas complained. Jerusalem was never part of the deal. cite? ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/460 "2011-06-02T07:42:04Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Well, when Egypt opens the border to Gaza and I realize that a Democratic Egypt might not be as friendly to Israel as the military dictatorship Israel… A new government is not going to go to war with Israel as it would just get kicked on its ass, just like other new governments have. Hey, maybe Israel can get more land if they do? Get the Sinai back? (See: _The US-Mexican War_.) A new government may be rather stupid and break treaties with Israel and the U.S., but we’ll see. If Gazans start flooding Israel, Israel will see at as an act of war, and if Egypt is responsible for it, oh buddy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500.md?page=24)