# Obama calls for independent Palestine, 1967 borders **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 19, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500 "2011-05-19T20:46:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/581 "2011-06-10T05:56:13Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > I think the point is that there was no Palestinian nationality or government in 1948. There were interested Arab parties outside of Palestine that wanted to control the land, though. > > The Jews had a government, a national movement, a military, hospitals, schools, a national language, diplomats… > > You get the idea. Then I wish he would just fucking say that rather than try to tease his argument out of ME. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/582 "2011-06-10T05:56:57Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > And you think this is the same type of anti-semitism as what we see today. That it comes from the same place? You’re shifting the goal posts. You rather foolishly tried to blame Arab and Muslim anti-Semitism on Zionism and now when confronted with anti-Semitism that dramatically predated Zionism you’re trying to pretend you said something different. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/583 "2011-06-10T05:57:31Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You do realize the leaders of the Palestinian Arabs under the British rule were claiming they should be joined with Syria rather than being granted independent rule don’t you? Yes, like I said, I read wikipedia. > [@](#): > > Also, you’ve failed to say when Palestinian national consciousness came about or give the land area that you think constituted Palestine. > > Would you mind answering those fairly reasonable questions? WTF is the point of your questions. You method of argument is very very very tedious. If you have a point to make then just fucking make it. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/584 "2011-06-10T05:58:34Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > I’m actually surprised that one hasn’t come up. I mentioned in this thread or another that I’d be more likely to acknowledge the legitimacy of the Arafat’s PLO if they hit military or government targets - or later, if they actually arrested terrorists. > > I also think that Israel should also respond to any party willing to negotiate. The militant Hamas is not an option. > > A diplomatic Fayyad is, but he’s kind of neutered. 😕 Well, you should talk to Ibn, because he thinks you are utterly moronic. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/585 "2011-06-10T06:00:01Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Mostly diplomats. Used to be UN diplomats when i lived in NYC, now I’m in DC so its people from embassies. 1967 seems to be the assumed starting point for the two state solution amongst diplomats from several countries Which countries and who said this, because the people who drafted UN Resolution 242 have explicitly said that isn’t the case. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/586 "2011-06-10T06:03:24Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You’re shifting the goal posts. > > You rather foolishly tried to blame Arab and Muslim anti-Semitism on Zionism and now when confronted with anti-Semitism that dramatically predated Zionism you’re trying to pretend you said something different. Did you read my post where I say “MODERN anti-semitism” There is no goalpost shifting here, just careless reading on your part. Its ok, it happens to all of us. I know anti-semitism existed before the aliyahs, they even had a term for christians and jews and separete rules that applied to them. But MODERN islamic anti-semitism You throw around accusations of foolishness and mornicism a bit too easily when you don’t really understand what you are reading. You might want to ease off of that. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/587 "2011-06-10T06:06:05Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Which countries and who said this, because the people who drafted UN Resolution 242 have explicitly said that isn’t the case. You want me to name names? No, most of the countries were South American and Asian. Resolution 242 seems consistent with their position. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/588 "2011-06-10T06:06:49Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > and you don’t see any difference between islamic anti-semitism from 200 yearas go and the islamic anti-semitism today? REALLY? Anti-semitism and xenophobia have not changed their definitions over time. > [@](#): > > That is why we give them billions of dollars every year and stick up for **you?** Pfft. Me? You mean Jews? So this is about Jews? I guess I could be offended, but then I remember that if it gets really bad and your attitude catches on and it becomes about Jews not about government and history, then I guess I can emigrate to Israel. Provided it still exists. > [@](#): > > If weare gonna play alternate realities. We might not have the islamic terrorism we have today if Israel was located somewhere else. And maybe my stepmother wouldn’t have been born in fucking HAIFA if her mother hadn’t been JEWISH IN POLAND when the Nazis invaded! Damn, maybe if Ruth had suffered in the ghetto like her mother, then the matter of one’s dual citizenship wouldn’t exist, either. :rolleyes: Freaking Jews. > [@](#): > > But its not. In what way does being Israel’s ally make us more powerful in any way that our 12 superaircraft carriers and trillion dollar military does not? Who are your secret friends in the State Department again? > [@](#): > > Really? Cuz our middle east policy is a peace deal based on 1967 borders and I haven’t heard much support from Israel for that recently. BTW in what way does Israel support our foreign policy? How many divisions of the IDF are in Afghanistan and Iraq right now? Are they providing support in Libya? …you think everyday Iraqis or Afghans would allow known Jewish troops on their soil? Are you fukkin nuts? You seem to put me in the same category as the Israeli government. Do you do this for all Jews? You do know that American Jews are serving in Afghanistan, too, right? And that they [don’t all declare religious status](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_tag#United_States) when serving in Muslim countries? And that the AJC, AIPAC, and synagogues all over America engage in ‘support the troops & families’ activities? Also, have you ever heard of this thing called _military intelligence_ or support? Christ. How many French and German troops are in Iraq? And Israel being our nuke watchdog in the ME is incredibly beneficial. If they didn’t handle it, we’d have to. Bet you wish they’d succeeded in taking out Saddam , eh? 😉 Hey, how come America hasn’t been called in for war crimes re: Afghanistan or Iraq? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/589 "2011-06-10T06:16:40Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Did you read my post where I say “MODERN anti-semitism” There is no goalpost shifting here, just careless reading on your part. Its ok, it happens to all of us. > > I know anti-semitism existed before the aliyahs, they even had a term for christians and jews and separete rules that applied to them. But MODERN islamic anti-semitism > > You throw around accusations of foolishness and mornicism a bit too easily when you don’t really understand what you are reading. You might want to ease off of that. What is “mornicism”? I’ve never accused anyone of it. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/590 "2011-06-10T06:23:34Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > And you think this is the same type of anti-semitism as what we see today. That it comes from the same place? Yeah. It comes from hatred and irrational fear of Jews…that’s hard to realize? > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Well, you should talk to Ibn, because he thinks you are utterly moronic. I welcome discourse from intelligent individuals. Actually, I happen to think that well-educated and thoughtful people are extremely attractive and I apparently have a pension for being a rabid militant Zionist, nu? I see this working in my favor. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Did you read my post where I say “MODERN anti-semitism” There is no goalpost shifting here, just careless reading on your part. Its ok, it happens to all of us. > > I know anti-semitism existed before the aliyahs, they even had a term for christians and jews and separete rules that applied to them. But MODERN islamic anti-semitism Maybe _Juden sind unerwünscht_, lit. ‘Jews are unwanted’, can be translated into Arabic by **Ibn** for me…? ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/591 "2011-06-10T06:24:41Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > What is “mornicism”? > > I’ve never accused anyone of it. Hatred of Semitic Mormons. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/592 "2011-06-10T13:04:40Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > WTF are you talking about? I am pointing out that Shodan’s philosophy leaves no room for peace short of killing your enemy. Actually, it seems to be you that cannot imagine any alternative other than [ol][li]Giving the Palestinians (and Hamas and Hizbollah) everything they ask for, or [\*]Genocide.[/ol]I find it odd as well as unfortunate that you don’t consider “negotiating in good faith and a willingness to compromise” even as a possibility. [/li] Israel was willing to give up 95%. The Palestinians weren’t willing to give up 5%. Therefore, let’s blame Israel. :rolleyes: Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/593 "2011-06-10T21:12:50Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Anti-semitism and xenophobia have not changed their definitions over time. OMG!!! [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=7](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=7) If you really think you can defend that notion. > [@](#): > > Me? You mean Jews? So this is about Jews? > > I guess I could be offended, but then I remember that if it gets really bad and your attitude catches on and it becomes about Jews not about government and history, then I guess I can emigrate to Israel. > > Provided it still exists. No, its not about Jews. Perhaps I use the word “you” too imprecisely. But I am amazed that every time I do, the assumption is is frequently that I am talking about Jews or being anti-semetic. WTF. > [@](#): > > And maybe my stepmother wouldn’t have been born in fucking HAIFA if her mother hadn’t been JEWISH IN POLAND when the Nazis invaded! Damn, maybe if Ruth had suffered in the ghetto like her mother, then the matter of one’s dual citizenship wouldn’t exist, either. :rolleyes: Freaking Jews. WTF does that have to do with the location of the nation of Israel? Once AGAIN someone brings up the holocaust and Nazis in a discussion about Israel when in THIS VERY FUCKING thread I get chewed out for claiming that people bring up Nazis and the Holocaust in Israel threads. > [@](#): > > Who are your secret friends in the State Department again? WTF are you talking about? > [@](#): > > …you think everyday Iraqis or Afghans would allow known Jewish troops on their soil? Are you fukkin nuts? You think they wanted Americans there? > [@](#): > > You seem to put me in the same category as the Israeli government. Do you do this for all Jews? You do know that American Jews are serving in Afghanistan, too, right? And that they [don’t all declare religious status](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_tag#United_States) when serving in Muslim countries? And that the AJC, AIPAC, and synagogues all over America engage in ‘support the troops & families’ activities? Yeah, and they’re Americans, not Israelis. I am asking what has ISRAEL done for us lately, not what have American Jews done for us lately. > [@](#): > > Also, have you ever heard of this thing called _military intelligence_ or support? Christ. How many French and German troops are in Iraq? What military intelligence or support has Israel been providing us that we send them billions of dollars and stand by them no matter what they do. > [@](#): > > Hey, how come America hasn’t been called in for war crimes re: Afghanistan or Iraq? I’m not sure what that has to do with this discussion but we don’t get charged with war crimes because as John Mace might put it, who the heck is going to enforce against us. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/594 "2011-06-10T21:20:06Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Actually, it seems to be you that cannot imagine any alternative other than [ol][li]Giving the Palestinians (and Hamas and Hizbollah) everything they ask for, or [\*]Genocide.[/ol]I find it odd as well as unfortunate that you don’t consider “negotiating in good faith and a willingness to compromise” even as a possibility. [/li] > Israel was willing to give up 95%. The Palestinians weren’t willing to give up 5%. Therefore, let’s blame Israel. > > :rolleyes: > > Regards, > Shodan Where did I say give them everything they ask for? I said stop settlement in Jerusalem as a precondition to negotiations. Giving them EVERYTHING they ask for would mean the dissolution of the state of Israel. WHERE did I say that. Put up or shut up dude cuz you have a penchant for using the word “everything” in a way that most people do not. Perhaps it is my own lack of imagination but you seem to think that peace is not possible with Palestinians because you can never trust them. At that point what are your options? What if they get close to purchasing a nuke or three? ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/595 "2011-06-11T06:31:58Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > OMG!!! > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=7](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=7) > > If you really think you can defend that notion. I’m sorry. Did the definition of ‘antisemitism’ change? > [@](#): > > No, its not about Jews. Perhaps I use the word “you” too imprecisely. But I am amazed that every time I do, the assumption is is frequently that I am talking about Jews or being anti-semetic. WTF. Everytime you talk about Israelis, you say “you” to me, and I don’t know if you are talking about Jews or Israelis because you switch back and forth. > [@](#): > > WTF does that have to do with the location of the nation of Israel? Once AGAIN someone brings up the holocaust and Nazis in a discussion about Israel when in THIS VERY FUCKING thread I get chewed out for claiming that people bring up Nazis and the Holocaust in Israel threads. No…you were hinting that if Jews had not settled in Israel, then the Palestinians wouldn’t be blowing shit up…and I said are you seriously going to blame that on Jews? You’re going to blame it on my mom that she was born in Haifa? She was only born there because someone else decided her family wasn’t welcome in Poland. Blaming the Jews for the settlement of Israel and the hatred of Jews is just wrong. > [@](#): > > WTF are you talking about? > > You think they wanted Americans there? The average Afghani or Iraqi was much more responsive. And they would not have tolerated the IDF. > [@](#): > > Yeah, and they’re Americans, not Israelis. I am asking what has ISRAEL done for us lately, not what have American Jews done for us lately. You keep saying YOU! so I don’t know what you mean. > [@](#): > > What military intelligence or support has Israel been providing us that we send them billions of dollars and stand by them no matter what they do. First; they don’t have our unequivocal support: check your history. Second, if you really want to know about the military relationship, go and Google. I’ve posted it several times. I’m tired. And grumpy. > [@](#): > > I’m not sure what that has to do with this discussion but we don’t get charged with war crimes because as John Mace might put it, who the heck is going to enforce against us. When Israel attacks Hamas in Gaza, it’s a war crime. When we pummel Libya or the Taliban, it’s justified. Gimme a break. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Where did I say give them everything they ask for? I said stop settlement in Jerusalem as a precondition to negotiations. Giving them EVERYTHING they ask for would mean the dissolution of the state of Israel. WHERE did I say that. Put up or shut up dude cuz you have a penchant for using the word “everything” in a way that most people do not. > > Perhaps it is my own lack of imagination but you seem to think that peace is not possible with Palestinians because you can never trust them. At that point what are your options? What if they get close to purchasing a nuke or three? The other day, Abbas said that after E. Jerusalem is his capital, he will not let “One single Israeli” step foot in it. He also said that not one Israeli could set foot in the West Bank. But no worries, cause he also expects every Palestinian Arab in Israel to stay there – plus a few more million to move in. Sounds about fair: No Jews in Judea. Muslims only. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/596 "2011-06-11T13:34:28Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > I’m sorry. Did the definition of ‘antisemitism’ change? Yes. As your own usage in this very thread illustrates, it now includes “failure to unquestioningly cheerlead everything Netanyahu does”. > [@](#): > > When Israel attacks Hamas in Gaza, it’s a war crime. When we pummel Libya or the Taliban, it’s justified. Gimme a break. The \*reasons \*don’t enter into it for you? Really? :dubious: Nor do excluded middles or false equivalences or special pleading, to start the list of fallacies for which you’ve provided so many examples for us? > [@](#): > > The other day, Abbas said So you believe he means everything he says, at face value, is that it? Are there any other politicians who have such absolute credibility with you? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/597 "2011-06-12T04:49:24Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > I’m sorry. Did the definition of ‘antisemitism’ change? The source of the antisemitism changed. The nature of the antisemitism changed. Today’s anti-semitism seems to stem largely from zionism and the creation of the state of Israel. > [@](#): > > Everytime you talk about Israelis, you say “you” to me, and I don’t know if you are talking about Jews or Israelis because you switch back and forth. I am almost never talking about Jews as Jews in these sort of debates. > [@](#): > > No…you were hinting that if Jews had not settled in Israel, then the Palestinians wouldn’t be blowing shit up… Sorry, if I wasn’t being clear enough. I didn’t mean to hint at it. I meant to flat out say it. Palestinians wouldn’t be blowing shit up if the state of Israel had not been created. > [@](#): > > and I said are you seriously going to blame that on Jews? You’re going to blame it on my mom that she was born in Haifa? She was only born there because someone else decided her family wasn’t welcome in Poland. So who forced Zionists to carve a country out of Palestine? > [@](#): > > Blaming the Jews for the settlement of Israel and the hatred of Jews is just wrong. You have any arguments to back up the first half of that statement? > [@](#): > > You keep saying YOU! so I don’t know what you mean. Sorry I’ll try to be more precise. But now that you know what I mean, do you have a response? > [@](#): > > First; they don’t have our unequivocal support No of course its not unequivocal. Golda Meir refrained from first strike in 1973 because Israel would have lost our support. But what have they done to warrant our support after the end of the cold war. I understand their value during the cold war. What is their value to us now? > [@](#): > > When Israel attacks Hamas in Gaza, it’s a war crime. When we pummel Libya or the Taliban, it’s justified. Gimme a break. Where did I say it was justified? I said that noone has the ability to take us to task over it. And frankly I do believe there is a difference between pummelling the Taliban and The Libyan Qadafi forces on the one hand and engaging in what looks an awful like collective punishment on the other hand. > [@](#): > > The other day, Abbas said that after E. Jerusalem is his capital, he will not let “One single Israeli” step foot in it. He also said that not one Israeli could set foot in the West Bank. > > But no worries, cause he also expects every Palestinian Arab in Israel to stay there – plus a few more million to move in. > > Sounds about fair: No Jews in Judea. Muslims only. 😉 How is that responsive in any way to what you quoted? ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/598 "2011-06-13T18:02:37Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Well, there’s your problem. Israel did not steal any nations. > > You forgot the rest, which is “and to be secure within her borders”. Which is why the idea of a ten year truce leading to permanent peace is ridiculous, when dealing with terrorists like Hamas and Hizbollah. > The part where the Palestinians refused to negotiate unless they were already granted everything they wanted, as I have mentioned six or seven times already. > > The only ducking I have seen is from answering **Ibn Warraq** ’s question about Jordan illegally occupying the West Bank. Your crap about misrepresenting what people post and then pretending they agree with you doesn’t count. > > Regards, > Shodan You’re still dodging the question. Are you still continuing to argue that Israel froze settlemt building or do you now agree with me that they didn’t? Can you just answer the question please? And exactly what do you think that I’m dodging? This is just another attempt to change the subject, isn’t it? Provide an actual link to something you think I’m dodging. Don’t foget to answer the question you’ve been dodging for five or six posts now. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/599 "2011-06-13T21:45:25Z")
If W. JLEM is not a settlement, then Israel froze settlements. Freezing of settlements was not a precondition until Obama made it so. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/600 "2011-06-13T21:54:15Z")
He won’t read it this time either. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500.md?page=31)