# Obama calls for independent Palestine, 1967 borders **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 19, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500 "2011-05-19T20:46:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/61 "2011-05-20T06:52:53Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Word of advice: don’t read the Jerusalem Post. It caters to the American immigrant community in Israel, a sector noticeably more right-wing and frankly, more crazy than mainstream Israeli society. > > [Here’s an op-ed](http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4071431,00.html) from an actual respected newspaper. bleh. Barf on both JPost and Ha’aretz. I wouldn’t call Obama an Israel _fan_, but again, I don’t think his speech was virulently _anti-Israel_. Just of poor taste. I think Bibi is pissed at Obama undermining him – I’m pretty sure he was OK with border lines drawn _like_ the 67 border, but Obama’s words have been taken both ways. An 8 mile distance between Tel Aviv and the West Bank? YNet said that he was opposed to the 67 border- which he is and so are most Israelis - not outright opposed to Obama’s ‘plan’. Alessan, I’m not Israeli and I’ve obviously not served in the IDF or any part of Israeli security, but wouldn’t the security of the airport be of concern? > [@Alessan](#): > > לך תזדיין. :eek: > [@ralph124c](#): > > More posturing by the messiah. Obama made the speech to show the palestinians that he is working “for them”. > The speech also riles up the israelis-which allows them to be properly outraged. > Absolutely nothing to see here, move on. > As long as the money keeps flowing from the US taxpayers, nothing changes. U.S. taxes go for Israeli military – and Palestinian government via U.N. ---
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/62 "2011-05-20T07:00:12Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I have to say, your attitude is not very conductive for a peaceful resolution. Really? 50 years of billions of $ from all over the Western world flowing into the support of an intentional occupation, land grab and indiscriminate killing, and Obama’s “1967 borders” is the problem, because there is a divine purpose to the destruction? Thankfully, we know why people do what they do. The rest is just denial and/or preferential treatment. I have to applaud Obama for his guts to publicly call it how it is, when his predecessors refused to do so for a very, very long time. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/63 "2011-05-20T07:09:28Z")
> [@Naxos](#): > > Really? > > 50 years of billions of $ from all over the Western world flowing into the support of an intentional occupation, land grab and indiscriminate killing, and Obama’s “1967 borders” is the problem, because there is a divine purpose to the destruction? Don’t ask me, I’m just a dumb Russian Babushka. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/64 "2011-05-20T07:15:17Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > bleh. Barf on both JPost and Ha’aretz. The link I gave was from Yediot Acharonot, Israel’s most widely-read newspaper. I’ve already bought today’s Yediot and Ma’ariv (second most popular pub), and the response has been pretty even-handed; in fact, the general trend seems to be criticism of Bibi, not of Obama. There isn’t any poll data in yet. The speech was probably too late last night, and what with the holiday and all, they might not have been able to catch enough people at home. ---
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/65 "2011-05-20T07:15:58Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Don’t ask me, I’m just a dumb Russian Babushka. Being dumb is not a problem. Claiming divine purpose for killing people on your behalf would be a definite problem. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/66 "2011-05-20T07:18:12Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yeah, the “mutually agreed swaps” is the out he has to the oversimplified headline of “pre-1967 borders”. > > But why does Palestine have to be contiguous? It’s certainly desirable, but not necessary. The US isn’t contiguous. I know that’s not the greatest analogy in the world, but I don’t see why Palestine has to be contiguous. Because you don’t really run the risk of being firebombed by Canadians if you drive from Seattle to Anchorage? Well, generally, that is… ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/67 "2011-05-20T07:19:42Z")
> [@Naxos](#): > > Being dumb is not a problem. > > Claiming divine purpose for killing people on your behalf would be a definite problem. Stop bringing your religious bullshit into the conversation. God, you fundies piss me off. ---
**Author:** ![Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shinna_Minna_Ma)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/68 "2011-05-20T08:12:26Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I’ve already bought today’s Yediot and Ma’ariv (second most popular pub), and the response has been pretty even-handed; in fact, the general trend seems to be criticism of Bibi, not of Obama. That’s what I would expect from Yediot and Ma’ariv. Love the left, criticize the right. > [@Alessan](#): > > There isn’t any poll data in yet. The speech was probably too late last night, and what with the holiday and all, they might not have been able to catch enough people at home. What holiday? Did I miss something? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/69 "2011-05-20T08:18:37Z")
Lag Ba’Omer falls on a Saturday this year, so lots of people did the whole bonfire thing last night. ---
**Author:** ![humanafterall](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/humanafterall/32/19654_2.png) [@humanafterall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/humanafterall)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/70 "2011-05-20T11:30:52Z")
Some people! I don’t remember the the West _asking the Palestinians for permission_ for the Jews to have their own country. We just came over and in a very arrogant manner said that a Jewish State will exist where Israel now exists. When the UN came to vote about the formation of Israel, _ **every Arab nation voted NO!!!** _ The Arabs are upset because we did not ask! ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/71 "2011-05-20T11:44:10Z")
Pop quiz - just to test your knowledge of history. When did Jews start immigrating to the place that would later be Israel? 1948? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/72 "2011-05-20T12:06:22Z")
What does it matter? ---
**Author:** ![SherwoodAnderson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@SherwoodAnderson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SherwoodAnderson)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/73 "2011-05-20T12:26:51Z")
I think President Obama is right when he senses that facts on the ground are changing and that incentives for peace are moving in place. The Arab Spring has huge implications for Israels security. Rather than dealing with the motivations of a few despots, in the future public sentiment in Egypt, Syria, Jordan and the Maghreb will be of utmost importance to Israel. That’s what Obama’s talking about when he’s saying that the Status Quo is unsustainable. Then we have the UN vote this autumn. He’s urging Israel to get out in front of that vote and restart negotiation. If I’m getting this right the US can’t veto that vote, since it’s the General Assembly - not the UNSC. If Palestine is recognized as a member state of the UN, they’ll have a representative in the General Assembly. If Palestines territory is considered the 1967 borders, Israel will be considered occupying a UN member state. And the US can’t do much to stop it. That’s why Obama is putting the pressure on now, to get out ahead of the earth shifting, and have Israel make a sustainable deal. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/74 "2011-05-20T12:35:55Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > What does it matter? It matters in that we weren’t “given” anything. There were more than enough Jews already in Mandatory Palestine in 1947 to constitute a viable state - the fact that we won our war against the Palestinains and later, against the invading Arab armies with no outside help is proof of that. The sole action the “west” took to failitate the foundation of Israel was in giving the British an excuse to leave. Saying that the “west” founded Israel is like saying that the French founded the United States of America, except for the fact that the Frnch helped the Colonials al lot more than anyone helped Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/75 "2011-05-20T12:52:47Z")
I seem to have forgotten what happened that made 1967 so seminal. Could someone remind me? ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/76 "2011-05-20T13:02:47Z")
Now is a definitional moment for what it means to be an Israeli and in a broader sense what it means to be a Jew. There are competing narratives here, which will be resolved. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/77 "2011-05-20T13:11:59Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > The link I gave was from Yediot Acharonot, Israel’s most widely-read newspaper. Nooooooo I was more responding to your comment about JPost. [/QUOTE] > [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](#): > > What holiday? Did I miss something? Lag B’Omer, I guess? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/78 "2011-05-20T13:15:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So you’re saying that they won’t agree to Obama’s plan because they’ll get their friend Obama to talk Obama down? What consequences has Obama laid out if Israel fails to comply? ---
**Author:** ![SherwoodAnderson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@SherwoodAnderson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SherwoodAnderson)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/79 "2011-05-20T13:22:29Z")
Sitnam: We have the UN vote coming up september. Egypt recently opened the Gaza border and have upcoming elections, in which the Muslim Brotherhood will be running… ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/80 "2011-05-20T13:53:31Z")
> [@SherwoodAnderson](#): > > I think President Obama is right when he senses that facts on the ground are changing and that incentives for peace are moving in place. The Arab Spring has huge implications for Israels security. Rather than dealing with the motivations of a few despots, in the future public sentiment in Egypt, Syria, Jordan and the Maghreb will be of utmost importance to Israel. > > That’s what Obama’s talking about when he’s saying that the Status Quo is unsustainable. > > Then we have the UN vote this autumn. He’s urging Israel to get out in front of that vote and restart negotiation. If I’m getting this right the US can’t veto that vote, since it’s the General Assembly - not the UNSC. If Palestine is recognized as a member state of the UN, they’ll have a representative in the General Assembly. If Palestines territory is considered the 1967 borders, Israel will be considered occupying a UN member state. And the US can’t do much to stop it. > > That’s why Obama is putting the pressure on now, to get out ahead of the earth shifting, and have Israel make a sustainable deal. No, the vote has to pass the Security Council first. It won’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500.md?page=5)