# Obama calls for urgent action on climate change
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-urgent-action-on-climate-change/687806
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [May 6, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-urgent-action-on-climate-change/687806 "2014-05-06T14:09:42Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2014, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-urgent-action-on-climate-change/687806/81 "2014-05-08T12:50:48Z")
> [@Knorf](#):
>
> It’s a fact that the debt increased more under GOP presidents in the past 50 years.
No, it is not a fact. Obama has increased the national debt more than under every President in history put together. ([Cite](http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/mspd/2014/opds012014.pdf) - pdf.)
Regards,
Shodan
---
### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2014, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-urgent-action-on-climate-change/687806/82 "2014-05-08T13:17:22Z")
So the President is responsible for the budget if there are deficits and he’s a Democrat, but a Republican Congress is responsible when there are surpluses and he’s a Democrat, even though they voted against it? That has always been your claim about the Clinton economy, **Shodan**. 😉
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### Author:  [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2014, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-urgent-action-on-climate-change/687806/83 "2014-05-08T14:41:26Z")
Yep, we see here in this very thread, one “conservative” arguing that the budget is the responsibility of the Congress, another wanting to put the responsibility for current debt and spending on the current president.
But the reality is, both increases in spending as a %, and the increase in debt as a % of the GNP, have been highest under GOP presidents since the 1970s. See the following. Look at the chart entitled, “Federal spending, federal debt, and GDP.”
Obama is second to Reagan. A distant second.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-urgent-action-on-climate-change/687806/84 "2014-05-08T14:55:32Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> No, it is not a fact. Obama has increased the national debt more than under every President in history put together. ([Cite](http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/mspd/2014/opds012014.pdf) - pdf.)
>
> Regards,
> Shodan
No he hasn’t (even if one accepts the dubious premise that the POTUS is responsible for debt increases.) [Actual cite](http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm).
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2014, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-urgent-action-on-climate-change/687806/85 "2014-05-08T14:57:21Z")
> [@Knorf](#):
>
> Yep, we see here in this very thread, one “conservative” arguing that the budget is the responsibility of the Congress, another wanting to put the responsibility for current debt and spending on the current president.
Assuming **Magiver** is correct (he is), Congress is responsible for the budget. Assuming you are correct (you’re not), it is demonstrably false that “the debt increased more under GOP presidents in the past 50 years”.
So if Presidents are responsible for the national debt, Obama has increased the national debt more than every GOP President in history put together. If Obama is not responsible for the national debt, then it is not true that the national debt has increased more under GOP Presidents than Obama.
You need to come up with a better talking point.
Regards,
Shodan
---
### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2014, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-urgent-action-on-climate-change/687806/86 "2014-05-08T15:00:05Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> No he hasn’t (even if one accepts the dubious premise that the POTUS is responsible for debt increases.) [Actual cite](http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm).
Yes he has. Your cite does not extend to the end of Obama’s first term. As of roughly January 2013, the national debt under Obama has increased more than for every other President in history put together.
Regards,
Shodan
---
### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2014, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-urgent-action-on-climate-change/687806/87 "2014-05-08T15:13:55Z")
No, he hasn’t. $17,293,020,000,000 minus $10,024,724,896,912 (which includes the end of GWB’s second term) equals $7,268,295,103,088. That is less than $10,024,724,896,912.
Regards,
Arithmetic\*
\*Sorry, I had to.
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-urgent-action-on-climate-change/687806/88 "2014-05-08T16:59:03Z")
> [@](#):
>
> But it’s also a fact that the federal debt has just about exactly doubled since he took office.
[Cite](http://www.factcheck.org/2014/04/obamas-numbers-april-2014-update/) from FactCheck.
_:shrugs:_ You can lead a horse to water…
Regards,
Shodan
---
### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-urgent-action-on-climate-change/687806/89 "2014-05-08T17:02:30Z")
Linky no worky. I just get a blank page.
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### Author:  [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-urgent-action-on-climate-change/687806/90 "2014-05-08T17:35:47Z")
Let’s discuss the budget in a separate thread. Oh wait, we did.
> [@doorhinge](#):
>
> Obama would have to rein in volcanoes, and continental drift if he plans on controlling the weather.
Really? You don’t want us to take anything you say seriously, do you?
First, we’re discussing climate, not weather.
Second, volcanoes reduce the planet’s mean temperature, so Obama would have to stimulate them, not rein them in.
Third, are you aware of the rate of tectonic plate drift? The fastest moving one is the Indian subcontinent, _crashing_ into Asia at the rate of about 5" per year. When do you expect plate tectonics (not “continental drift”) to start affecting climate?
> [@ITR\_champion](#):
>
> Let me offer some suggestions.
>
> First, eliminate the mandate for ethanol is gasoline. [At best it’s useless](http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2014/04/20/its-final-corn-ethanol-is-of-no-use/) at reducing carbon dioxide emissions, and it’s bad for the environment in countless ways.
>
> Second, reduce the size and activity of the U. S. military. I don’t think all those cruisers and F-22’s and tanks are powered by wind or hydrogen. The less they do, the less carbon dioxide they’ll emit.
>
> Third, update the archaic air traffic control standards so that commercial airlines don’t have to waste so much fuel in the takeoff and landing stages.
>
> Fourth, cancel the [recent increase](http://www.nationalreview.com/article/370895/pilot-shortage-made-congress-jillian-kay-melchior) in required training for pilots. More training flights means more emissions.
>
> Fifth, drop tariffs on foreign crops that can be used as biofuels.
>
> These are things that Obama could either do my executive action or else have a reasonable chance of passing Congress.
Thanks! Those don’t amount to much, and some involve risks we might not want to take (pilot training, which I don’t know enough about to comment), but it’s a start.
Just because it’s not enough doesn’t mean it’s not worth doing. NOTHING we do will be enough; we’ll also have to convince the rest of the world to cooperate as well. The only harm in doing small things is using them as an excuse not to do more.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2014, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-urgent-action-on-climate-change/687806/91 "2014-05-08T17:49:32Z")
> [@doorhinge](#):
>
> Climate change happens every spring. And then again in the fall. Obama doesn’t seem to be able to anything about that.
What’s that got to do with this?
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### Author:  [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-urgent-action-on-climate-change/687806/92 "2014-05-08T18:05:55Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> What’s that got to do with this?
It’s, I assume, an attempt to assert _folksy platitudes_ as a rebuttal to a serious issue.
Typical of the GOP, I’d say.
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### Author:  [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-urgent-action-on-climate-change/687806/93 "2014-05-08T18:08:37Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> What’s that got to do with this?
Well, duh. Weather is the same as Seasons is the same as Climate. Every (right winger) knows that.
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### Author:  [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2014, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-urgent-action-on-climate-change/687806/94 "2014-05-08T18:26:48Z")
FYI
> [@XT](#):
>
> You aren’t really addressing the OP. I’m not asking to debate climate change in this thread. I’m asking ‘How much can he do on his own? Will he be able to rally enough congressional support to do more? What impact will anything he does have on actual climate change? Obviously there are going to be some sacrifices that Americans are going to be asked to make, but will any of it make any difference to the global carbon foot print?’. If you want to debate climate change (for the umpteenth time) then feel free to start a new thread to do so. Discussing it in here will simply derail the thread. Just a request though…do what you like.
> [@Learjeff](#):
>
> …Really? You don’t want us to take anything you say seriously, do you?
>
> First, we’re discussing climate, not weather.
> Second, volcanoes reduce the planet’s mean temperature, so Obama would have to stimulate them, not rein them in.
> Third, are you aware of the rate of tectonic plate drift? The fastest moving one is the Indian subcontinent, _crashing_ into Asia at the rate of about 5" per year. When do you expect plate tectonics (not “continental drift”) to start affecting climate?
Really. (Your opinion is always welcome but not required. just sayin’)
climate
noun [C/U] (WEATHER) /ˈklɑɪ·mət/
› earth science the general weather conditions usually found in a particular place:
[C] My parents like the warm, dry climate of Arizona.
> **[climate](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/climate?q=climate_1)**
>
> 1. the general weather conditions usually found in a particular place: 2. the…
Erupting volcanoes can reduce the planet’s mean temperature (aka global un-warming).
Tectonic plate drift can redirect more moisture to a specific region or reduce moisture to a specific region.
So what can Obama do about the questions asked in the OP?
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### Author:  [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2014, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-urgent-action-on-climate-change/687806/95 "2014-05-08T18:34:50Z")
You can fill up a [whole](http://www.highsnobiety.com/uploads/RTEmagicC_smallest-book-in-the-world-1.jpg.jpg)[book](http://www.highsnobiety.com/uploads/pics/smallest-book-in-the-world-2.jpg) with all of the stuff right wingers know about global warming.
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### Author:  [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2014, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-urgent-action-on-climate-change/687806/96 "2014-05-08T23:30:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> And yes, I agree they should lower the nox emissions and let the diesels in. That was my original point.
You wasted an entire paragraph nitpicking hyperbole. And I say that raising gas taxes a few dollars/gallon will do much more for reducing petrol consumption than lowering nox emissions. I’ll go for yours if you go for mine.
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### Author:  [@SmartAlecCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAlecCat)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2014, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-urgent-action-on-climate-change/687806/97 "2014-05-08T23:46:05Z")
Don’t just listen to the news, go read the [report](http://nca2014.globalchange.gov) for yourself – it is written to be read and understood by everyone. It isn’t just for scientists.
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### Author:  [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2014, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-urgent-action-on-climate-change/687806/98 "2014-05-09T00:37:04Z")
> [@Learjeff](#):
>
> Let’s discuss the budget in a separate thread. Oh wait, we did.
Fair enough. I’m somewhat responsible for the budget digression, so I’ll drop it.
> [@](#):
>
> Just because it’s not enough doesn’t mean it’s not worth doing. NOTHING we do will be enough; we’ll also have to convince the rest of the world to cooperate as well. The only harm in doing small things is using them as an excuse not to do more.
Also, even some small steps might be _just_ enough to mitigate effects as to keep them from being catastrophic for someone.
---
### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2014, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-urgent-action-on-climate-change/687806/99 "2014-05-09T01:21:41Z")
> [@Deeg](#):
>
> You wasted an entire paragraph nitpicking hyperbole. And I say that raising gas taxes a few dollars/gallon will do much more for reducing petrol consumption than lowering nox emissions. I’ll go for yours if you go for mine.
raising taxes will do nothing but increase the cost of production and slow down the economy. 1 in 5 people are on food stamps and it makes no sense to penalize them further. There are already substantial increases in fuel efficiency standards in place for the upcoming years. Keeping money in people’s pockets so they can afford to buy those cars is the direct path to making that happen.
What we lack for immediate reductions today is the ability to take advantage of the cars already in production.
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### Author:  [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2014, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-urgent-action-on-climate-change/687806/100 "2014-05-09T04:50:20Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> raising taxes will do nothing but increase the cost of production and slow down the economy.
Really? You don’t think raising gas prices a significant amount would reduce consumption? That goes against pretty much everything I believe regarding the free market. Anyway, [this chart says otherwise](http://drivingfueleconomy.com/sites/default/files/Chart3_rd2-03.jpg). And you haven’t heard my whole plan–the hike in gas prices would be offset by an income tax credit. People on food stamps could pocket the credit and save even more money by reducing consumption.
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