# Obama Cancels Missile Shield: Putin to Reciprocate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 17, 2009, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-cancels-missile-shield-putin-to-reciprocate/510514 "2009-09-17T23:55:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-cancels-missile-shield-putin-to-reciprocate/510514/1 "2009-09-17T23:55:54Z")
The NY Times reported that President Obama has decided to stop work on the missiles, which were to be placed in Poland, intended to protect Eastern Europe from attack. The Poles and Czechs are furious-but the Russians are pleased. This is no surprise, as Putin has remarked that the project was intensely disliked by him. Now the question is:will Russia offer anything for this? Personally, I think this is a wise move on Obama’s part-we have been (needlessly) antagonizing the Russians on this, and removing the issue ought to improve our relations. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-cancels-missile-shield-putin-to-reciprocate/510514/2 "2009-09-18T00:16:42Z")
Yes, Putin has agreed to export nuclear technology and more weapons to Venezuela. So it’s all good. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-cancels-missile-shield-putin-to-reciprocate/510514/3 "2009-09-18T00:18:16Z")
I wouldn’t say the Poles and Czechs are necessarily furious. They did expend quite a bit of political capital to move closer to the US and away from Russia, only to have us acquiesce to the Russians, but there are ways they can forge closer ties with us that don’t involve antagonizing Russia. I have to think that this is a prelude to some sort of assistance with Iran. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-cancels-missile-shield-putin-to-reciprocate/510514/4 "2009-09-18T00:27:35Z")
Vladimir Putin will not reciprocate with something equally good to the US I’m certain although there’s a good chance he might trade off something rather trivial for this. Seriously why have we betrayed our allies again (like Honduras) and embolden potential rivals. Russia was not going to have a war or even a sanction against teh US for the missile shields. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-cancels-missile-shield-putin-to-reciprocate/510514/5 "2009-09-18T00:34:04Z")
It’s partly about the US wanting backing from Russia in the forthcoming talks with Iran, so they say over here. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-cancels-missile-shield-putin-to-reciprocate/510514/6 "2009-09-18T00:41:17Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > The NY Times reported that President Obama has decided to stop work on the missiles, which were to be placed in Poland, intended to protect Eastern Europe from attack. > The Poles and Czechs are furious-but the Russians are pleased. This is no surprise, as Putin has remarked that the project was intensely disliked by him. Now the question is:will Russia offer anything for this? > Personally, I think this is a wise move on Obama’s part-we have been (needlessly) antagonizing the Russians on this, and removing the issue ought to improve our relations. What’s to reciprocate? Were the Russians building a missile shield of their own? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-cancels-missile-shield-putin-to-reciprocate/510514/7 "2009-09-18T00:44:02Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Seriously why have we betrayed our allies again (like Honduras) . . . 😕 Was Honduras a U.S. ally under Zelaya, before the coup? It was no enemy, certainly, but I think Zelaya was too friendly to Venezuela to be “allied” with the U.S. And I know Honduras has not been a U.S. ally at any time since the coup. So what are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-cancels-missile-shield-putin-to-reciprocate/510514/8 "2009-09-18T03:44:34Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What’s to reciprocate? Were the Russians building a missile shield of their own? They were selling Iran nuclear technology. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-cancels-missile-shield-putin-to-reciprocate/510514/9 "2009-09-18T04:51:33Z")
See this baseball bat,\*\* Mac\*\*? Its a Louisville Slugger, genuine. Solid wood. Truly a bitch pounding that spike through it. If I hear one word out of you that sounds even remotely like “We got to stop Putin before he gives WMD to the Iranians!”, I’m going to start clubbing you with it. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-cancels-missile-shield-putin-to-reciprocate/510514/10 "2009-09-18T08:05:56Z")
Bwahahahaha… I’m sorry, but I can’t…bwahahahahahah Putin… reciprocate… bwahahahaha Sorry. I was overcome by the moment. More seriously, this is exactly the kind of boneheaded thinking Democrats are famous for. “Oh, let’s show how nice we are by unilaterally giving up a military system our adversaries fear! Then once they see how nice we are, they’ll realize there’s nothing to be afraid of, and they’ll deal with us more fairly, and we’ll all get along and raise puppy dogs and join hands in the spirit of peace and harmony!” What, Putin’s giving missiles and nuclear technology to Venezuela? He’s refusing to help us disarm Iran? He’s threatening Canada’s sovereignty in the north? He’s assassinating reporters on foreign soil? Well, it must be our fault! Here, let’s give him another gift, to show that we’re REALLY nice! So far as I can tell, Obama gave up those missiles for _nothing_. They were a prime bargaining chip, and he threw it away. Not only that, but he’s continuing his pattern of sucking up to the U.S’s enemies and pissing all over the U.S’s allies. This is a critical mistake, because as the Czech ex-president said today, it sends a signal to Moscow that the ex-Soviet Republics are no longer firmly under the U.S’s umbrella, and that support for them by America is at best circumstantial. This could trigger all sorts of aggressive Russian moves. Putin may now decide to push some more boundaries to test just how far the resolve of the U.S. really goes. This, by the way, was exactly the motivation of the Soviet Union during the Cuban Missile Crisis - to test a young Democratic president who they perceived to be soft on defense. Let’s just hope history doesn’t repeat itself. In addition, the people of the ex-Soviet Republics were firmly pro-American, and by stabbing them in the back after they stuck their necks out to approve the missile installations in the first place, Obama is going to damage America’s reputation with them. Just as he’s done with the people of Israel and Honduras. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-cancels-missile-shield-putin-to-reciprocate/510514/11 "2009-09-18T08:15:19Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > So far as I can tell, Obama gave up those missiles for _nothing_. What missiles are those? The neo-con wet dream missiles that don’t exist - the missiles that, in development, have attianed only a 50% strike rate, the missiles that depended on the right weather conditions for accuracy? There aren’t any missiles to give up. As for the _realpolitik_, it’ll take months and years to weigh the consequences of this geo-political and strategic judgement. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-cancels-missile-shield-putin-to-reciprocate/510514/12 "2009-09-18T08:35:11Z")
What missiles? You know, the ones the Russians were having conniption fits over. Clearly, they didn’t share your assessment of their usefulness. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-cancels-missile-shield-putin-to-reciprocate/510514/13 "2009-09-18T09:00:46Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > What missiles are those? > > The neo-con wet dream missiles that don’t exist . The missiles that Putin didn’t want protecting Europe? To be replaced with a["smarter, stronger and swifter" system](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6838058.ece) involving both sea-based and land-based mobile interceptors? The ones using proven technologies to create an effective missile defence system? Is this a neo-soc wet dream? ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-cancels-missile-shield-putin-to-reciprocate/510514/14 "2009-09-18T09:07:49Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > What missiles? You know, the ones the Russians were having conniption fits over. Clearly, they didn’t share your assessment of their usefulness. > [@](#): > > Will it work? > > The theory is that the interceptor missile homes in on and destroys its target in the air by physically hitting the incoming warhead. > > However, the closing speed of interceptor and target will be 24,000kph (14,900mph), or 6.5km (4 miles) per second - so the task is more difficult than hitting a bullet with another bullet. > > The system’s supporters say that not only does it work, but it is even more accurate than that. > > But critics say that, despite having spent over $100bn (£54bn), the Pentagon still has not proved the system can work in realistic conditions. > > Independent scientific bodies in the US have said that tests of the system’s intercept capabilities have been highly scripted, with the defence being given detailed information about the attack beforehand. > > They also argue that the defence system could be easily circumvented by potential attackers. [Link](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6720153.stm) i.e. the missiles \*\*do not \*\*exist. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-cancels-missile-shield-putin-to-reciprocate/510514/15 "2009-09-18T09:24:10Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > [Link](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6720153.stm) > i.e. the missiles \*\*do not \*\*exist. Someone better tell Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-cancels-missile-shield-putin-to-reciprocate/510514/16 "2009-09-18T09:26:53Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > So far as I can tell, Obama gave up those missiles for _nothing_. They were a prime bargaining chip, and he threw it away.. But the whole point of bargaining chips is to give them away, isn’t it? We don’t know what Putin agreed to in return - I mean, it’s not as if the Kremlin is known for being forthcoming with information. I’m sure that in the coming months we’ll see inklings of the secret agreement that was just made between the U.S. and Russia. Besides, the Russians weren’t afraid of the missiles; they were nervous about American forces encroaching into their comfort zone. They’re like that. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-cancels-missile-shield-putin-to-reciprocate/510514/17 "2009-09-18T10:01:10Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Someone better tell Obama. Tell him what? That’s he’s “giving up” something that doesn’t work, or something that doesn’t exist or something for which success of the technology depends on which way the wind is blowing? Did you see that base in Poland on the news, weeds and rust surrounding 40-year old tarmac - there is nothing there. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-cancels-missile-shield-putin-to-reciprocate/510514/18 "2009-09-18T10:29:24Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > Tell him what? That’s he’s “giving up” something that doesn’t work, or something that doesn’t exist or something for which success of the technology depends on which way the wind is blowing? > Did you see that base in Poland on the news, weeds and rust surrounding 40-year old tarmac - there is nothing there. You said the missiles don’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-cancels-missile-shield-putin-to-reciprocate/510514/19 "2009-09-18T10:32:53Z")
That’s because . . . they don’t. You going to tell me otherwise - that the (so far) $100 billion centrepiece of the neo-con defensive strategy is out there defending the homeland as we speak? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-cancels-missile-shield-putin-to-reciprocate/510514/20 "2009-09-18T10:52:51Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > That’s because . . . they don’t. > > You going to tell me otherwise - that the (so far) $100 billion centrepiece of the neo-con defensive strategy is out there defending the homeland as we speak? yes. [The $100 B neo-soc missiles are on-line](http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=54585). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-cancels-missile-shield-putin-to-reciprocate/510514.md?page=2)