# Obama complains about Netanyahu; Sarkozy calls N. a 'liar'. Worse than the Green Line speech? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 9, 2011, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345 "2011-11-09T01:35:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/1 "2011-11-09T01:35:11Z")
:smack:I’m surprised this hasn’t come up yet today. Here’s a link from [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/08/world/europe/france-sarkozy-netanyahu/) who probably got it from the Telegraph like the rest of us. > [@](#): > > “I can’t stand him. He’s a liar,” Sarkozy said of Netanyahu, according to the website. > > Obama replied, “You’re tired of him; what about me? I have to deal with him every day,” the site reported. > > Arret Sur Images (“Freeze Frame”) said journalists had listened in on the conversation but had agreed not to report it. The Reuters and Associated Press news services confirmed that report Tuesday. :smack: Yeah, that’s just not good. How do you think the Democrats will spin this one? Two state solutions, balanced peace proposals, Green Lines - these are things that many American Jews can nod their heads in agreement with (or at least understand the position). It’s no secret (I don’t think) that Obama and Netanyahu have a rough relationship. But Obama more or less conceded that Netanyahu was a liar, while Israel has been barraged with rockets as of late. Just after being Turkey’s PR punching bag, too. This slip comes at a wrong time. And I’m actually pretty surprised - Obama is always so tight-lipped and cool. Republicans are probably squealing in happiness right now. How exactly do you think the Democrats who have been campaigning to the Jewish demographic are going to spin this? I’m kicking myself for not being at the (Jewish Federation) General Assembly in Denver this evening. The best response I could come up wtih is, “No comment…er, PEE ESS, we do not support the Palestinian bid for statehood.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/2 "2011-11-09T01:44:14Z")
Politicians don’t always like each other, news at 11. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/3 "2011-11-09T01:52:49Z")
And Marley is \*still \*snarky when his candidate looks bad. You are so rude. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/4 "2011-11-09T01:57:03Z")
He’s not my candidate, and I’m sorry if the post came off as more dismissive than I intended. But it’s a serious question: so what? We know diplomats bitch about each other. We know they don’t all like each other. Not that long ago people were saying the leak of all those Wikileaks cables was going to be a disaster- except it wasn’t, because in diplomacy terms, it was nothing anybody didn’t know and they still had to go to work the next day. As you said, nobody thought Obama and Netanyahu were friendly. Maybe they’ll apologize through back channels. What else are they supposed to do? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/5 "2011-11-09T02:03:31Z")
> [@](#): > > “You’re fed up with him, but I have to deal with him even more often than you,” Obama replied, according to the French interpreter. The above is what I read he said. Not what’s in the OP. I could understand feeling something if Obama was the one calling Netanyahu a liar, but he wasn’t. He just doesn’t come to his defense. Does Obama have to pretend to be the guy’s best bud even in presumably private conversations? That’s an unreasonable expectation. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/6 "2011-11-09T02:03:49Z")
I put this in Elections because I assumed it would get play in the coming months. It is no secret that they don’t like each other, but I am so.sick.and.tired that as Jewish person, every tenth phrase I hear is a reassurance that Obama is very ‘pro-Israel’. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/7 "2011-11-09T02:06:26Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > The above is what I read he said. Not what’s in the OP. > > I could understand feeling something if Obama was the one calling Netanyahu a liar, but he wasn’t. He just doesn’t come to his defense. Does Obama have to pretend to be the guy’s best bud even in presumably private conversations? That’s an unreasonable expectation. I wasn’t aware you had to be best friends with someone to come to their defense for a charge like that. I’d like to more about the context, actually - not just three minutes that was released. (I’m more annoyed that the news organizations agreed to keep mum about it in the first place. Huh?) I read it as an agreement of Sarkozy’s statement. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/8 "2011-11-09T02:08:11Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > How exactly do you think the Democrats who have been campaigning to the Jewish demographic are going to spin this? I’m kicking myself for not being at the (Jewish Federation) General Assembly in Denver this evening. The Jewish vote is second only to the African American vote in being reliably Democratic. Every cycle the GOP predicts they’ll turn due to some minor kurffufle regarding Israel, and every year they’re wrong. Exactly zero votes will change because of this. FWIW, I’ll put 50$ that the Jewish vote in 2012 will break better then 60-40 for Obama if anyone wants to take it. > [@](#): > > I put this in Elections because I assumed it would get play in the coming months. It is no secret that they don’t like each other, but I am so.sick.and.tired that as Jewish person, every tenth phrase I hear is a reassurance that Obama is very ‘pro-Israel’. Obama is very pro-Israel. (and honestly, even if you don’t think he is, do you really think that everyone who doesn’t like Netanyahu must not be pro-israel?) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/9 "2011-11-09T02:10:37Z")
Being annoyed at Netanyahu isn’t anti-Israel. I’m given to understand some Israelis don’t like the guy either. I know this is going to sound spin doctor-y but the fact that Obama says he talks to him every day is probably more significant than the fact that he doesn’t like him. If you’re a politician speaking in public you should always assume the mic is on, so that’s a dumb error. But let’s not treat this like it’s an ethnic slur or even a statement about Middle East politics, because it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/10 "2011-11-09T02:23:00Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Being annoyed at Netanyahu isn’t anti-Israel. No, of course not. > [@](#): > > I’m given to understand some Israelis don’t like the guy either. I know this is going to sound spin doctor-y but the fact that Obama says he talks to him every day is probably more significant than the fact that he doesn’t like him. “Deals with” isn’t the same as “talks with”. I think if you are the President of the United States, you’ll “deal with” Israeli issues every day, especially in this climate. > [@](#): > > If you’re a politician speaking in public you should always assume the mic is on, so that’s a dumb error. Agreed. I remember in the primaries, Obama was so cool and collected. No Drama from Obama. > [@](#): > > But let’s not treat this like it’s an ethnic slur 😕 Who did? > [@](#): > > or even a statement about Middle East politics, because it isn’t. This is where I may disagree. Weren’t they discussing Israel when the comments were made? Isn’t that a statement about Middle East politics - or Israel’s play in Middle East politics? Again, I’d like to hear the entire conversation, but I’m 99.999999% sure this will be harder to refute. I’m sure Obama will apologize, but it isn’t the same as, “Well, my policy of X has been the same of every American President since X.” ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/11 "2011-11-09T02:27:21Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Exactly zero votes will change because of this. > > FWIW, I’ll put 50$ that the Jewish vote in 2012 will break better then 60-40 for Obama if anyone wants to take it. iirc, Obama did better than 60-40 the last election, so if he barely breaks your 60-40 mark, that could still be a net loss in Jewish votes…meaning that some votes would change. (For this only; no. As part a larger issue; perhaps.) > [@](#): > > Obama is very pro-Israel. That’s like a Likud member saying that Israel is the only party that actually wants peace. > [@](#): > > (and honestly, even if you don’t think he is, do you really think that everyone who doesn’t like Netanyahu must not be pro-israel?) I don’t like Netanyahu -Livni was my (not counted, idelogical) vote- but I think the continued assaults on him and his foreign policy are a little unfair. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/12 "2011-11-09T02:31:14Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > FWIW, I’ll put 50$ that the Jewish vote in 2012 will break better then 60-40 for Obama if anyone wants to take it. Obama got 78% of Jewish vote. Kerry got 76%. Gore got 79%. Clinton got 80% and 78%. If Obama gets 60% in 2012, that will be a big improvement for Republicans. And will definitely swing FL to red. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/13 "2011-11-09T02:34:31Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > > [@Marley23](#): > > > > Being annoyed at Netanyahu isn’t anti-Israel. > > No, of course not. But … that’s all you got here. Obama is annoyed at Netanyahu. If that’s not the same thing as being anti-Isreal, then why would you expect it to affect the pro-Isreal vote? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/14 "2011-11-09T02:34:47Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > “Deals with” isn’t the same as “talks with”. I think if you are the President of the United States, you’ll “deal with” Israeli issues every day, especially in this climate. I don’t know any more about this than you do, but he said “deal with _him_,” meaning Netanyahu. > [@](#): > > This is where I may disagree. Weren’t they discussing Israel when the comments were made? Isn’t that a statement about Middle East politics - or Israel’s play in Middle East politics? I think you’ve missed the point here. They were not discussing a one- or two-state solution, settlements, the right of return, or anything like that. Sarkozy said the Israeli PM is a liar and Obama said he finds him frustrating to deal with. That’s about the individuals, not the politics. > [@](#): > > I’m sure Obama will apologize, but it isn’t the same as, “Well, my policy of X has been the same of every American President since X.” The article you linked to had the response: > [@](#): > > In Washington, White House spokesman Jay Carney said he had no comment on the conversation or Obama’s response but said, “The president’s position has been quite clear on the issue of efforts by the Palestinians to achieve through the U.N. what can only be achieved effectively through direct negotiations.” > Netanyahu’s office also had no comment. I think that’s about all that’s coming: essentially it’s “Move along, nothing to see here.” Good personal relationships are very helpful in diplomacy, but Obama’s not going to ditch Israel because he doesn’t like Netanyahu and Netanyahu isn’t going to bomb Iran because he’s mad at Obama. That’s not how this stuff works. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/15 "2011-11-09T02:40:02Z")
Surely Sarkozy calling the guy a liar is the important part, not Obama making an almost non committal response? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/16 "2011-11-09T02:42:28Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > I don’t like Netanyahu -Livni was my (not counted, idelogical) vote- but I think the continued assaults on him and his foreign policy are a little unfair. So you don’t like Netanyahu, Obama doesn’t like Netanyahu, Sarkozy doesn’t like Netanyahu, [American Jews](http://www.gallup.com/poll/148373/Solid-Majority-Jewish-Americans-Approve-Obama.aspx) don’t like Netanyahu, Angela [Merkel](http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/merkel-chides-netanyahu-for-failing-to-make-a-single-step-to-advance-peace-1.345539) doesn’t like Netanyahu, [Secretary Gates](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-06/robert-gates-says-israel-is-an-ungrateful-ally-jeffrey-goldberg.html) doesn’t like Netanyahu, [Bill Clinton](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=630774) doesn’t like Netanyahu. I have a theory… Netanyahu is something of a douche ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/17 "2011-11-09T02:52:20Z")
This is the controversy du jour? Pretty weak tea, if you ask me. So Obama finds Netanyahu frustrating. So he didn’t throw down some street-fighting on Sarkozy when Sarkozy called Netanyahu a name. This’ll blow over in 24 hours, since it’s a non-issue in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/18 "2011-11-09T03:07:37Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > But … that’s all you got here. Obama is annoyed at Netanyahu. If that’s not the same thing as being anti-Isreal, then why would you expect it to affect the pro-Isreal vote? \ Maybe no one will make anything of it. (Hah, yeah right.) My OP question was how do you think Democrats will respond to new GOP charges that Obama isn’t ‘pro-Israel’? I wasn’t making a case for Jews not to vote for Obama. I just thought it was something Dopers may want to discuss, but I see this has become a defense of Obama thread. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/19 "2011-11-09T03:18:29Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Netanyahu is something of a douche That’s it, you’re never going to be President. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/20 "2011-11-09T03:21:42Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > but I see this has become a defense of Obama thread. Actually, this has become a “meh” thread. Because the original issue is “meh.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345.md?page=2)