# Obama complains about Netanyahu; Sarkozy calls N. a 'liar'. Worse than the Green Line speech? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 9, 2011, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345 "2011-11-09T01:35:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/21 "2011-11-09T03:34:57Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > \ Maybe no one will make anything of it. (Hah, yeah right.) My OP question was how do you think Democrats will respond to new GOP charges that Obama isn’t ‘pro-Israel’? > > I wasn’t making a case for Jews not to vote for Obama. I just thought it was something Dopers may want to discuss, but I see this has become a defense of Obama thread. So you wanted us to think of ways the Dems might defend Obama, but you don’t want this to become a thread defending Obama. I guess thats not exactly a contradiction, but its cutting it kinda fine. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/22 "2011-11-09T03:35:09Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > \ Maybe no one will make anything of it. (Hah, yeah right.) My OP question was how do you think Democrats will respond to new GOP charges that Obama isn’t ‘pro-Israel’? The GOP already charges Obama with not being pro-Israel. It’s old news. Frankly, I just find it refreshing that two politicians actually told the truth about another one… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/23 "2011-11-09T03:36:48Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > My OP question was how do you think Democrats will respond to new GOP charges that Obama isn’t ‘pro-Israel’? There aren’t going to be new “charges.” Romney and the other Republicans will assert they care more about Israel the same way Republicans have been doing for umpteen cycles, and I think Jewish voters will buy it at about the same rate- which is not very much. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/24 "2011-11-09T03:39:00Z")
It’s not a defense of Obama thread. It’s a “who the fuck cares?” thread. I don’t know about you, but I’ve been in situations where someone is bad-mouthing another person I have no ill-feelings towards, but I just kind of roll with it. I don’t explicitly agree with the comment by saying, “I know, girl! She gets on my nerves too!” Instead I might say, “Well, I have to deal with her all the time! I’ve got my own stories!” Why do I do this? Because no one likes being scolded. And there is no way to do the “right” thing without scolding and shaming the other person just a tad. Being political means playing both sides sometimes. Many people if not everyone does this at least once in their lives. That Obama does this indicates he is a human being. I think even people who hate him can give him on a pass on this. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/25 "2011-11-09T03:40:05Z")
Mostly because Bibi _is_ kind of a douche. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/26 "2011-11-09T03:41:53Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > Actually, this has become a “meh” thread. Because the original issue is “meh.” Fair enough! > [@Simplicio](#): > > So you wanted us to think of ways the Dems might defend Obama, but you don’t want this to become a thread defending Obama. I guess thats not exactly a contradiction, but its cutting it kinda fine. Well I suppose I doubt that Dems will say, “This is a non issue. Netanyahu is a douche, anyway.” Okay, okay. Attempt at thread failed. I get it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/27 "2011-11-09T03:44:14Z")
Also, I kinda detest when people make arguments like this. You want to attack Obama over this, but the case that this somehow makes Obama anti-Israel is so silly you can’t even bring yourself to make it. So instead you put it in the mouths of some hypothetical GOP operatives, and we’re supposed to basically debate against a case that no one actually participating in the thread is making. I see the same thing a lot on cable news, when political operatives are trying to put a spin on something thats so silly they can’t even put it in their own mouths. Instead they say things like “some have argued”, or “its been said”. If you want to argue that this event is some sort of evidence that Obama is anti-Israel, do it. If you don’t, then don’t. But stop hiding behind what you imagine someone else might say. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/28 "2011-11-09T03:55:16Z")
I [don’t](http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/11/bachmann-calls-on-pres-obama-to-apologize-to-israeli-prime-minister/) [have](http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/11/mccain-would-fire-some-aides-if-caught-on-open-mic-like-obamasarkozy/) to [imagine](http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=244864). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/29 "2011-11-09T03:55:41Z")
Why’s this in Elections anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/30 "2011-11-09T04:02:15Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > I [don’t](http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/11/bachmann-calls-on-pres-obama-to-apologize-to-israeli-prime-minister/) [have](http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/11/mccain-would-fire-some-aides-if-caught-on-open-mic-like-obamasarkozy/) to [imagine](http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=244864). So do you agree with Bachman that Obama’s statement “makes it apparent that he is not committed to our ally Israel”? Because if you don’t, it seems kind of silly to expect us to imagine how the Dems might respond to an attack thats too silly for anyone in this thread to actually make. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/31 "2011-11-09T04:04:58Z")
No, I don’t agree. I still think Dems will have to answer for it (or feel like they do). I could be wrong. 'Scuse me. \ ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/32 "2011-11-09T04:13:58Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > I wasn’t aware you had to be best friends with someone to come to their defense for a charge like that. Why would Obama even have to come to the defense of Netanyahu? This is international diplomacy, not a school playground. Sarkozy is entitled to his opinion regardless of whether he was venting or sincere. Why is it US interests for Obama to convince Sarkozy otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/33 "2011-11-09T04:22:20Z")
I was reading some foreign press today (Guardian?) that said the reaction in Israel was a collective shrug. Mainly because they’ve know for months via the Wikileaks cables that no one in the Obama administration is particularly fond of Netanyahu. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/34 "2011-11-09T04:40:42Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > I wasn’t aware you had to be best friends with someone to come to their defense for a charge like that. I’d like to more about the context, actually - not just three minutes that was released. (I’m more annoyed that the news organizations agreed to keep mum about it in the first place. Huh?) I read it as an agreement of Sarkozy’s statement. The impression I got was that Obama didn’t feel it was worth it to get pissy with Sarkozy over a flippant remark made in a presumably private conversation, especially if they had other business to attend to. Also, I’d like to know just what Obama has done that’s so evil, or even that much different from previous administrations, wrt Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/35 "2011-11-09T04:43:13Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I was reading some foreign press today (Guardian?) that said the reaction in Israel was a collective shrug. Mainly because they’ve know for months via the Wikileaks cables that no one in the Obama administration is particularly fond of Netanyahu. If the people in the country Netanyahu leads react with a collective “meh,” the issue is a “meh” issue. I’m still not clear why we, Obama, or even Netanyahu or Israel should care about this. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/36 "2011-11-09T14:14:37Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > I put this in Elections because I assumed it would get play in the coming months. It is no secret that they don’t like each other, but I am so.sick.and.tired that as Jewish person, every tenth phrase I hear is a reassurance that Obama is very ‘pro-Israel’. Was Obama criticizing Israel (making him a probable anti-semite in your book) or is criticizing Netenyahu the same thing as criticizing israel (therefore making Obama an anti-semite)? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/37 "2011-11-09T14:16:06Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Being annoyed at Netanyahu isn’t anti-Israel. I’m given to understand some Israelis don’t like the guy either. I know this is going to sound spin doctor-y but the fact that Obama says he talks to him every day is probably more significant than the fact that he doesn’t like him. If you’re a politician speaking in public you should always assume the mic is on, so that’s a dumb error. But let’s not treat this like it’s an ethnic slur or even a statement about Middle East politics, because it isn’t. There are Israelis that don’t like Netenyahu? That’s anti-Israel and that makes them anti-semites. Stupid antisemtic Israelis, we hateses them. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/38 "2011-11-09T14:22:23Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > iirc, Obama did better than 60-40 the last election, so if he barely breaks your 60-40 mark, that could still be a net loss in Jewish votes…meaning that some votes would change. (For this only; no. As part a larger issue; perhaps.) OK, then how’s this. Obama will lose proportionally less of the Jewish vote than he does of the general vote. He’s gonna lose votes across the board. > [@](#): > > I don’t like Netanyahu -Livni was my (not counted, idelogical) vote- but I think the continued assaults on him and his foreign policy are a little unfair. I think the world is showing restaint in criticizing israel because they don’t want to inflame too much anti-Israeli sentiment during a populist uprising in the middle east. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/39 "2011-11-09T14:23:53Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > But … that’s all you got here. Obama is annoyed at Netanyahu. If that’s not the same thing as being anti-Isreal, then why would you expect it to affect the pro-Isreal vote? Because, some folks like Pained think that any criticism of Israel or its policies is anti-semitism. I guess he has extended that to crtiticism of Netenyahu. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/40 "2011-11-09T14:25:49Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > That’s it, you’re never going to be President. Well, he certainly isn’t going to get the Jewish vote. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345.md?page=3)